I can't believe you looked up the definition of reformed in the dictionary (incidentally, in the context we're discussing I think there's a fair chance it should read re-formed)!

As for Utd, I really don't know where you're coming from on this. I accept they were formed as Newton Heath L&Y railways in 1878 (1880??) before subsequently reforming/renaming/evolving into Manchester United......you're the one who's rewriting history, to fit your argument, by arguing that City were not originally formed (founded or whatever other term you wish to use) as St Marks in 1880, but were instead the product of an immaculate conception in 1904, coincidentally at a time that West Gorton fell within the municipal boundaries of Manchester.

Fact is that when both clubs were first formed as their original names, neither club resided within the Manchester city boundaries at the time. However, when both clubs first put Manchester in their name, they were both located in the city of Mamchester. City have played inside Manchester ever since and all the club's official merchandise has the formation date of 1894, ie: when we became known as MCFC. United on the other hand moved to Trafford 8 years after becoming MUFC and from what I can gather some of the club's merchandise shows 1878 as the formation date which pre-dates MUFC and goes back to when Newton Heath LYR was formed.

In the grand scheme of things it's a petty argument about United not playing home games in Manchester since 1910 (except when using Maine Road) but it's interesting that when John Henry Davies bought the club in 1902 he followed City's lead from 8 years before and put Manchester in the re-named club presumably as he saw greater commercial benefit to the club.

What I find incredibly ironic is that while neither club in their original formats were within the Manchester boundaries, Heaton Norris Rovers FC (who later became Stockport County of course) may well have been! I can't clarify this for sure (hopefully someone can) because part of Heaton Norris was amalgamated into Stockport before HNRFC were formed but part of it remained in Manchester until well after.

Not sure where you are coming from either. 1894 (1904 ??). My point is that United claim 1878 . City claim 1894., coincidentally when they were in Manchester. So are they Newton Heath 1878 or Manchester United 1903 ?
By the By, how did you know I had looked in a dictionary without perusing it yourself ???

Sorry, kept typing 1904 even when reading 1894 - must be getting number dyslexic.

Anyway, reckon we've done this topic to death now, getting so I can't even remember what the original point was!! Thanks for an interesting debate...btw I haven't looked it up in a dictionary (yet), just that your definition of reformed sounded like it came from one. I salute your powers as a wordsmith if that wasn't the case ;-)