Sturgeon wants another referendum

blueparrot said:
Yet a few voted to leave the eu for those same nationalist reasons, not you, but there is a group o brexiteers I come across every day who voted for a hard brexit and amongst their other conversations is is how much we should cut foreign aid, and how Somalia should sort itself out. How foreigners are over here scrounging yet still managing to steal all the jobs. Every sort of phobia going gets ticked off, they could be Daily Mail headline writers.
Now lets be clear in no way am I saying its a majority or even a large number that voted leave that think like this but it does exist as I'm sure it does with Scottish nationalism. But it's not the whole story, and the only reason some of us may vote yes.
For me the deciding factor and the only reason to vote yes wouldnt be nationalist at all . i would only vote yes if staying integrated in the EU was guaranteed.
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I agree but there is a reason why UKIP and its members are rightly rounded on and the same should apply to those within the SNP with the exact same wants and outlook.

As an Englishman living and working in Scotland, i see the arguments on an almost daily basis now and the fall out between people who have been friends for years yet are now divided over this issue.

Nationalism is divisive and it leads to men and women thinking and sometimes doing unspeakable things and history tells us that.
 
Economically, I think Scotland would be insane to vote for independence. It doesn't always boil down to money, of course. Britain would undoubtedly have been better off in the 40's if we'd acquiesced with the Nazis. I also think England and Wales would be better off financially if the Scots went their own way, but it doesn't mean I think it would, on balance, be a good thing. As I said, it isn't just about money.

As a footnote, I think anyone talking of independence from London for the North is equally deluded, if they think it won't have a serious detrimental impact on economic wellbeing in the North of England. Insane notion.
 
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stonerblue said:
You miss my point.
May says the Scots cannot have a referendum because they don't know enough details about what they would be voting for. That didn't seem to stop the UK having one.
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I get your point but as I stated no one was going to know those details until after we leave and they are decided. But the Scots have the chance to see if they like it. Personally I would like an end to the bribery and appeasement of the Scottish before any 2nd referendum. A fair deal for all people of the uk. I think that is more important than seeing what a brexit Britain looks like. Then if they want to leave so be it.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Economically, I think Scotland would be insane to vote for independence. It doesn't always boil down to money, of course. Britain would undoubtedly have been better off in the 40's if we'd acquiesced with the Nazis. I also think England and Wales would be better off financially if the Scots went their own way, but it doesn't mean I think it would, on balance, be a good thing. As I said, it isn't just about money.

As a footnote, I think anyone talking of independence from London for the North is equally deluded, if they think it won't have a serious detrimental impact on economic wellbeing in the North of England. Insane notion.
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You're right, a desire for self determination isn't just about the money.
 
stonerblue said:
You miss my point.
May says the Scots cannot have a referendum because they don't know enough details about what they would be voting for. That didn't seem to stop the UK having one.
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No. May says the Scots cannot have a referendum at the moment because there will be far more information and details about what they're voting for in a couple of year's time.

We wouldn't have had any more information about Brexit by delaying the EU referendum.
 
stonerblue said:
You miss my point.
May says the Scots cannot have a referendum because they don't know enough details about what they would be voting for. That didn't seem to stop the UK having one.
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I think the skunks at Westminster don't want to offer the skunks at Holyrood a referendum because the former can't handle two things at once, unless they are highly lucrative terms of employment.
 
CityStu said:
No. May says the Scots cannot have a referendum at the moment because there will be far more information and details about what they're voting for in a couple of year's time.

We wouldn't have had any more information about Brexit by delaying the EU referendum.
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We would if the fuckers had set out, in understandable terms for the layman, what in/out meant for the country.

Which brings me nicely back to where i started from in this thread, namely, a referendum was a fucking stupid idea.
Adios Amigos.
 
CityStu said:
No. May says the Scots cannot have a referendum at the moment because there will be far more information and details about what they're voting for in a couple of year's time.

We wouldn't have had any more information about Brexit by delaying the EU referendum.
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Sturgeon wants a referendum between August 18 and Spring 19 . Brexit is supposed to be concluded spring 19 so surely we'll have a pretty good idea of wahts in it by then.
 
stonerblue said:
We would if the fuckers had set out, in understandable terms for the layman, what in/out meant for the country.

Which brings me nicely back to where i started from in this thread, namely, a referendum was a fucking stupid idea.
Adios Amigos.
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That's not their decision to make (it's the result of a negotiation between the UK and EU), nor could they guarantee they'd be in a position to deliver on their promises.
 
blueparrot said:
Sturgeon wants a referendum between August 18 and Spring 19 . Brexit is supposed to be concluded spring 19 so surely we'll have a pretty good idea of wahts in it by then.
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Then why not ask the Scots to wait a few more months for confirmation of what the deal will look like? The UK shouldn't have to bend over backwards to appease the SNP, especially when they had an independence referendum just a few years ago.

I've no problem with them having another referendum, but you have it at our earliest convenience, which is after Brexit.
 
CityStu said:
Then why not ask the Scots to wait a few more months for confirmation of what the deal will look like? The UK shouldn't have to bend over backwards to appease the SNP, especially when they had an independence referendum just a few years ago.

I've no problem with them having another referendum, but you have it at our earliest convenience, which is after Brexit.
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Precisely
 
blueparrot said:
For me the deciding factor and the only reason to vote yes wouldnt be nationalist at all . I would only vote yes if staying integrated in the EU was guaranteed.
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Well as we 'are where we are' and not 'where you might want us to be' then it seems you will be a guaranteed No voter. Even with a following wind and with all other EU countries that are likely to have objections deciding to drop them - such a guaranteed position cannot be attained in any of the timetables being suggested for Indyref2
 
CityStu said:
Then why not ask the Scots to wait a few more months for confirmation of what the deal will look like? The UK shouldn't have to bend over backwards to appease the SNP, especially when they had an independence referendum just a few years ago.

I've no problem with them having another referendum, but you have it at our earliest convenience, which is after Brexit.
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She hasnt asked the Scots anything, she asked for the power to call a referendum, which wouldnt be held for at least 18 months, when the Brexit deal should be known.There is though a good chance the negotiations will drag on more than two years, even a chance we could have a change of government before amy Brexit deal is ratified, what then ?
 
blueparrot said:
She hasnt asked the Scots anything, she asked for the power to call a referendum, which wouldnt be held for at least 18 months, when the Brexit deal should be known.There is though a good chance the negotiations will drag on more than two years, even a chance we could have a change of government before amy Brexit deal is ratified, what then ?
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They wait. All that would require would be for the SNP to change their definition of a generation from 2 years to at most 10 years.
 
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