Nicolas Otamendi - 2016/17 performances

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Tugay One Cup said:
Just because I can write a lot of words doesn't mean that the text has any merit. It's a measure of quantity and not quality.
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True, but for you to be write a text you have to be able to write it first. You cannot be good in the air if you don't win your duels.
 
Dax777 said:
For example if someone has scored 20 goals this season, its hard to conclude he is a "shit striker." Sure you can find people who have scored 27 or 28. And you can conclude those are better. But this will only show how hard it is to find those who have scored more.
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I remember half way through one season when Michael Ricketts was the leading goal scorer, he was shit ( by premiership footballing standards).
 
Glad he obviously wins all his headers then. It's a damn shame he can't replicate that form in consistency or on the floor though.
 
Lancet Fluke said:
I can't believe anyone thinks stats are much use without context.
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No one does. What they in fact do is give more credence to an opinion those stats agree with.

If you think Aguero is a good goalscorer and I think he is a Shit goalscorer and we check the stars and find out Aguero is the 5 highest scorer in Europe's top 5 leagues.

Those stats give a bit more credence to your original opinion and diminishes my opinion a bit unless I could show how that stat is baised.

I.e. that Aguero had played 2ice the number of games, or that Aguero takes double the number of shots or gets double the number of opportunities to score that others have. Thus you need empirical evidence of your own to that undermines the veracity of the stats provided.

In essence I can't just say, " ah, the stats showing Aguero scores the 5th most # of goals has no context, therefore its invalid." And that is often the comeback you get from those who stats don't support their opinion.

That's simply a weak comeback. If you don't like a stat, show how it doesn't prove the claim. Not just guess that it doesn't. Saying it doesn't show so and so is weak. Showing that it doesn't show it is stronger.

I generally stop after 2 exchanges on these topics with Neville because I'm more wary of getting into those long draw out exchanges that bring down the quality of whole thread. But if new points are made I think its fair to respond to them.

Lets examine air battles. According to one set of stats Otamendi wins the most a game in the Prem. Then you go deeper and find that he is in the t top 20 in winning headers as a % of battles entered in the league. Then you dig even further and notice he has been in more headed battles than anyone. In spite of playing about 200 minutes less on average than everyone remotely close to him barring Van Dijk. Now add all those favorable stats to his diminutive height compared to almost everyone else around the top of list.... And the preponderance of the evidence begins to"suggest" not "prove", but suggests strongly that more likely than not he is very good in the air.

What is needed from the person who's opinion is contrary to what those stats show is evidence supporting their contrary opinion. I.e. Not claims of whether we didnt have context on the preponderance of stats already proffered.
 
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Still bitching about Otamendi and Dax is still putting up the good fight :) I see.

Unfortunately I've had some issues and missed most of the liverpool game so I can't attest to that game but hasn't he been in good/very good lately? Even for the naysayers? He should have been in the lineup vs monaco.
 
mavsmcfc said:
Lol. Please do me a favor and find someone whose headers always go forward. You can't even do that in video games mate. So you're saying Smalling is good in the air because from the time that you see him "in flesh", his header always go forward and never backward or sideways?

A goal is a goal whether you blast it to the goal or you tap it in.

A tackle won is a tackle won no matter where the ball heads after that.

An aerial duel is won when you win the header between at least 2 people.

Fucking hell mate, what kind of drugs are you on?
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The fact that you think an aerial duel is 'won' by basically chucking yourself at the ball & fuck tbe consequences, explains why you think stats are the answer.

A proper centre back will often let the forward have the ball & pick up the result if the alternative is worse.

It's about judgement & Otamendi has none, just a good leap for a smallish cb.
 
ADegenerate said:
Still bitching about Otamendi and Dax is still putting up the good fight :) I see.

Unfortunately I've had some issues and missed most of the liverpool game so I can't attest to that game but hasn't he been in good/very good lately? Even for the naysayers? He should have been in the lineup vs monaco.
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He's played pretty well.

Difference between saying that & sucking his dick & making out hhis faults never existed.
 
mavsmcfc said:
I wasn't saying those two things were positive. I'm just saying that's not what we're discussing here.

How is winning header not a sturdy foundation for a player's ability at heading?

Scoring goal is not a sturdy foundation for a player's ability to score too then?
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Because the definition of 'won' is bullshit rendering the stat bullshit.
 
Neville Kneville said:
The fact that you think an aerial duel is 'won' by basically chucking yourself at the ball & fuck tbe consequences, explains why you think stats are the answer.

A proper centre back will often let the forward have the ball & pick up the result if the alternative is worse.

It's about judgement & Otamendi has none, just a good leap for a smallish cb.
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Your whole logic is just a laugh.

Here if you don't believe me then maybe you'll believe it when Pep says he's strong in the air?

http://www.eurosport.com/football/p...rmances-i-ve-ever-seen_sto5843188/story.shtml

Look at the last line. He also mentioned it many times in his press conference about Otamendi being excellent in the air, I'm just not bothered to find it.
 
Still fighting about whether he's good in the air or not, has he got any better at being consistent and defending the ball below head height.
 
mavsmcfc said:
Your whole logic is just a laugh.

Here if you don't believe me then maybe you'll believe it when Pep says he's strong in the air?

http://www.eurosport.com/football/p...rmances-i-ve-ever-seen_sto5843188/story.shtml

Look at the last line. He also mentioned it many times in his press conference about Otamendi being excellent in the air, I'm just not bothered to find it.
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Pep says everybody is 'amaaaaazing' at everything. And he thinks Kolarov is also 'amaaaazing' in the air.

I don't know if you are another American & have to listen to Chuck Linkletter & Art Funkwit on commentary, but have a listen to people such as Martin Keown, on a typical Otamendi performance.
 
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