It's Quiet - a new dawn

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I do worry slightly about the front line being crowded, though. We hve seen how much martial and rashford over in trafford have stagnated this year, i dont want the same thing to happen to sane and sterling by effectively having a brand new front 3. Also, where does it leave sancho and diaz?
 
well that was one f the points i was making.....our keeper(s) are pretty damn poor and that putting it mildly.

however what the stats don't show you how easy it is to break on us, how easy it is for opposition to get crosses into our box, how easy it is to get onto the edge of our box and shots away. all you have to do is watch the games to see this. (I'm sure you do see it)
The problem here is that you only watch our games judiciously. But none of the others around us. So to understand whether it is easy to get at us, you'd have compare it to how easy it is to get at the other 5 teams in the top six. It is this gap in the average fan's knowledge that stats help with.

If on average teams create less chances against us than most in the top five, and our possession stats are similar, then we are doing things ok defensively. Even if you can point to problematic instances you remember. What the stats is saying is that other teams have those instances too, and not necessar
No, it just implies that statistics don't tell us the whole picture and that's because they don't.

Stats are a brilliant tool when applied correctly. Unfortunately, they often aren't and we end up with people who don't watch a player but think they know all there is about him because they have a scroll through their profile on whoscored.

Overemphasis on the importance of statistical analysis is partly why (amongst a myriad of other reasons) sites such as r/soccer are borderline unusable for me. You're more likely to find a full blown argument about sample sizes than about football itself.

As I said, they're a useful resource but they most certainly don't tell the whole picture.
No modes individually gives us the whole picture. So stating one mode doesn't only serves to attempt to undermine it.

By stating what the stats say, I'm not suggesting it tells us everything. So a retort that it doesn't tell us everything is redundant. Unless the purpose of the retort is to undermine the point being highlighted by reference to the stats.

For the most part almost no one has a full picture of what every team in the league is doing at the same time. So to judge more accurately in comparison to each other, using curated stats is a by far better approach than guesing. Which frankly is what we do when we say our defense is bad and Chelsea's is good. We conclude this by noting what we've seen of our defense, and compare that to our guess about Chelsea based on conceding fewer goals.

Now if a curated stat shows that over the season we've conceded fewer chances than say Chelsea, or even similar chances, but yet conceded disproportionately higher number of goals. Someone responding with "stats doesn't show everything" is simply using that line to discredit a curated fact you could only have deduced from either watching both teams judiciously (not just one) or examining their stats side by side.

Since almost no one here watches all the teams judiciously and if you or @simon23 do then I apologize. But if my assumption is right that like me you watch more City games judiciously and the other teams for entertainment. Then a statistical comparison is a way better barometer of the truth than either of our opinions drawn from just watching our team and making educated guesses about the others.

Thus, the fact that stats doesn't show us everything is irrelevant if it shows us more than our guesses and assumptions.
 
Dax777 literally just explained to you how we have the same possession as the other top 4 teams but concede far fewer shots, so to reply to that comment saying "yes but we concede less shots because of higher possession"....no.

the qua;it of the chance (or if you want it another way - the ease of the chances) that teams have against us is something that needs to be addressed...if we are conceding fewer shots but losing,drawing games...some of it is about putting our chances away...but some of it is down to the defending and the lack of quality.....one simple example is the one vs monaco where stones one on one with the attacker lets him past far too easy, kolarov slicing into his own net (was it against celtic?)

if we only conceded 2 shots a game thats cause of the possession but if they are scoring from those two chances then its down to bad defending and/or bad keeping. Look at everton game as an example

Go through all our defenders and name one of them that you are fully happy with (Stones at a push though he has a lot to do) and Kompany (f fit)......thats it....the rest are not good enough and need to be replaced. Pep tried to buy 2 centre halves in the summer....clearly he wasn't happy with what he has...he will go out an buy fullbacks...that should tell you the same thing.

Keep sticking up for the inadequate players we have but we need better in defence than was the have
 
He also happens to be shit.

Back to La Liga for him.

I don't disagree on his performances in shot stopping, but he is Pep's man playing the ball out how Pep wants it to be played and it's his first season in England, so he'll be cut some slack

Who in La Liga would take him after his performances this season and his wage would rule him out of all but Real Madrid, Barcelona, Seville and Athletico Madrid, unless we were to stump up half his salary on a loan deal
 
There is something wrong with the goalkeeper perhaps. But if the defence keeps the opposition to just 2 or 3 chances a game. Then its playing very well. And possession wise we ate around the same as every other top 6 team I think we and Arsenal are 1 %rage point better than Pool and Chelsea and 2 over United and Spurs. In other words, its not just possession that is causing the lack of opportunities. The other top 6 teams have majority possession too. Yet they give up more shots. But save more.

Statistically, its our goalkeeping that is inferior, not our defending per see.

Very hard to separate the two Dax.
 
When do you think he became shit?
When he stopped being able to keep the ball out of the net, so when he started doing his job at 50%

Losses will be cut, I'll happily wager that.

To @dickie davies if you reckon no La Liga team will take him because of his performances this season then why should we keep him?
 
When he stopped being able to keep the ball out of the net, so when he started doing his job at 50%

Losses will be cut, I'll happily wager that.

To @dickie davies if you reckon no La Liga team will take him because of his performances this season then why should we keep him?

So you think he went from arguably World Class to shit in the space of what...4 months. That is unusual isn't it?
 
So you think he went from arguably World Class to shit in the space of what...4 months. That is unusual isn't it?
I never thought he was World Class, said that at the time, so it's not that unusual to me no; that he went from a decent 'keeper to one doing half his job.

Look at Torres, his decline from one of the most lethal Premier League strikers to misser of open nets probably happened quicker.
 
I never thought he was World Class, said that at the time, so it's not that unusual to me no; that he went from a decent 'keeper to one doing half his job.

Look at Torres, his decline from one of the most lethal Premier League strikers to misser of open nets probably happened quicker.
Fair enough. If you didn't rate him at Barca or for Chile it makes sense.
 
I never thought he was World Class, said that at the time, so it's not that unusual to me no.

Look at Torres, his decline from one of the most lethal Premier League strikers to misser of open nets probably happened quicker.

Ter Stegen, who is having a good season at Barca and is considered world class, has conceded 81 goals in 85 games for them. Bravo conceded 44 goals in 75 games.

Sticking just to La Liga, Bravo let in 41 goals in 69 games (.594 goals per game), and kept 39 clean sheets (56.52% of games). Meanwhile, Ter Stegen has conceded
31 goals in 36 games (.861 goals per game) and kept only 15 clean sheets (41.66% of games).

Bravo was a world class keeper by any metric. Why did things go sour at City? A contributing factor has to be his lack of English, as on numerous occasions, including against Hull, he has been found his defense inappropriately positioned for him to deal with threats. The rest is mentality, he needs a break, perhaps a fresh start elsewhere, and a chance to find his old form.
 
I'm not certain that all chances are created equal. The chances we do concede seem to be of an unusually high quality. Some stats do seek to quantify this, the PL site has something called "Big chances missed", but it's going to end up extremely subjective.

I think when people complain about how easily we are opened up, it's more than just chances conceded anyway. Teams slice through us very quickly and even when we have the opposing team's players surrounded it always feels like they're able to craft a hint of a chance out of it. We make hard work of a lot of easy work even if we are able to ultimately not concede a chance. I think you pay for that in a lot of non quantifiable ways in terms of work rate, ability to counter on your own, etc.

In any case, we are far too succeptible to fairly pedestrian crosses and cut backs. I would agree that the GK position has a large role to play in where the stats are but I do think we could do a better job of defending both the actual danger and the "pre-danger", if you will, neutering teams sooner so we can conserve more energy for attack and closing down up the pitch.
 
Ter Stegen, who is having a good season at Barca and is considered world class, has conceded 81 goals in 85 games for them. Bravo conceded 44 goals in 75 games.

Sticking just to La Liga, Bravo let in 41 goals in 69 games (.594 goals per game), and kept 39 clean sheets (56.52% of games). Meanwhile, Ter Stegen conceded
31 goals in 36 games (.861 goals per game) and kept only 15 clean sheets (41.66% of games).

Bravo was a world class keeper by any metric. Why did things go sour at City? A contributing factor has to be his lack of English, as on numerous occasions, including against Hull, he has been found his defense inappropriately positioned for him to deal with threats. The rest is mentality, he needs a break, perhaps a fresh start elsewhere, and a chance to find his old form.
Precisely, and in my opinion I'd wager the player himself wants that.

The club and he will cut their losses, my friendly wager still stands if anyone wants it; that we'll have a new number one next season.
 
the quality and clarity with what TH is coming out with is going to lead to one exciting summer....

  • Ederson (GK)
  • Heinrichs
  • fabihno
  • sanchez, mbappe, griezman (thought TH has said that utd and boxed him off previously but maybe we have decided to join the party) - all as attacking options and we want at least two out of the three
  • potentially danny rose from spurs and/or ballerin from Arsenal
  • Isco - icing on the cake????
  • centre halves - bonnucci laporte, VVD..any two out of the three?????
even if one or two of those don't come off we will still be greatly improved from what we have now

I could take not getting isco for instance
 
Very hard to separate the two Dax.
Well, perhaps I should say in comparison to those around us. Perhaps we give up more blatant chances than other teams, I can't be sure. But the stats suggest our save to shots is not on per with most of our rivals. Liverpool bein the other poor team.
 
Precisely, and in my opinion I'd wager the player himself wants that.

The club and he will cut their losses, my friendly wager still stands if anyone wants it; that we'll have a new number one next season.

I'm not sure one way or the other, but it's hard to deny we'll bring in a new GK (and Ederson Moraes seems pretty nailed on right now) in the summer. What remains is a decision between Willy and Claudio for who sticks around.

Bravo, despite being world class, was only ever a quick fix anyway, certainly the club seems to have learned it's lesson on this and will be going all-in this transfer window.
 
I'm not sure one way or the other, but it's hard to deny we'll bring in a new GK (and Ederson Moraes seems pretty nailed on right now) in the summer. What remains is a decision between Willy and Claudio for who sticks around.

Bravo, despite being world class, was only ever a quick fix anyway, certainly the club seems to have learned it's lesson on this and will be going all-in this transfer window.
Since Willy is already out of contract, if o were to guess, I'd guess Bravo would definitely be here next season as a backup.
 
I do worry slightly about the front line being crowded, though. We hve seen how much martial and rashford over in trafford have stagnated this year, i dont want the same thing to happen to sane and sterling by effectively having a brand new front 3. Also, where does it leave sancho and diaz?
Don't think that is as big a worry here, while Maureen is afraid to rotate his squad, I don't think Guardiola has named an unchanged line up once this season. Still need to be wary of unbalancing the squad though.
 
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