General Election June 8th

[mat]

 

[brass neck]

Labour supporters talk about Labour "being the party of the working personmore than the Tories", my argument is that just like the Tories, neither is this Labour Party, not anymore.

I've not seen them do anything that's helped us beneficially. Who forced us to work Bank Holidays instead of being given the option to have the day off? Labour did. (oh but we do get an 'extra' week off as a result) Who made it so that companies could stop paying their staff decent wages because they introduced a National Minimum Wage putting everyone on the same lowest conceivable rate? Who did nothing in their 13 years in power to address the unsociable hours issue? I don't expect the Conservatives to do anything but I damn well expected Labour to.

I've never claimed that the Tories are a party that represents the working class. There IS no party that represents workers these days. I'm suggesting to all those who say Labour is for the workers need to speak to the workers, because we're the ones who either don't vote or vote Independent or Greens or Lib Dem, because we don't trust Labour anymore than we do the Tories.

They're all fair points but I have to say, I think you must agree there is a slight difference between the New Labour of Blair which for all tense and purposes was a Tory party dressed in the clothes of Labour. And the Labour party of Jeremy Corbyn which for the first time in my voting memory genuinely offers me an alternative to neo liberal fiscal policy and neo conservative foreign policy.

The American election was a battle between the status quo and a supposed change to the norm.

Sadly the person genuinely offering change was poisoned by the system, he (sanders) would of been their worst nightmare. Rubbish was spoken about him, plots, biased reporting, lies, defamatory accusations and what did the world end up with? An unstable version of the status quo!

Todays interviews must of shown everyone May is going to change nothing. Corbyn will! Let's not let them do to his chances of implementing REAL change what they SO blatantly did to Sanders!

 

[malg]

Ok i get that but i think its too far the wrong way and the tories will only make it worse. Nurses using foodbanks is nothing to do with benefit scroungers, corbyn is the first labour leader in many a year to promise to deal with this.

Nurses using food banks? They're liars, or utterly shite at managing their money........

 

[Metal Biker]

They're all fair points but I have to say, I think you must agree there is a slight difference between the New Labour of Blair which for all tense and purposes was a Tory party dressed in the clothes of Labour. And the Labour party of Jeremy Corbyn which for the first time in my voting memory genuinely offers me an alternative to neo liberal fiscal policy and neo conservative foreign policy.

The American election was a battle between the status quo and a supposed change to the norm.

Sadly the person genuinely offering change was poisoned by the system, he (sanders) would of been their worst nightmare. Rubbish was spoken about him, plots, biased reporting, lies, defamatory accusations and what did the world end up with? An unstable version of the status quo!

Todays interviews must of shown everyone May is going to change nothing. Corbyn will! Let's not let them do to his chances of implementing REAL change what they SO blatantly did to Sanders!

I do agree that Corbyn's (attempts) to change the Labour Party are different to the mantra of the New Labour concensus of recent years, but it is still infested with New Labour Blairites that prevents me from giving the party on a whole my support, even if it IS led by Corbyn, because I cannot vote for him. Not only that but I also feel Corbyn's Labour is too far left for my liking. I'm in the Manchester Gorton ward anyway, so it's a foregone conclusion who's going to win it.

I'd have liked a Labour led by David Miliband, or something that closely resembled the Attlee era. Fairness is more important to me that 'financial equality'; i'm not in favour of punishing the rich for being rich, only the ones who are rich solely from how they've stolen from others through unpaid taxes or exploitation of workers deserve to be chastised and have their 'wealth' taken from them to be redistributed amongst those it was intended for.

Corbyn isn't offering that message. His Labour seems to be "if you've got it, you can afford it as others are in more need of it". That may be fiscally true, but to me it's not moral. The government should not (IMO) have any right to take earnings of citizens in regards to their collective wealth just based on their say so that others less fortunate in society need it more. Citizens have the right to earn as much as they can and then spend their earnings how they wish so in the interest in fairness, they should pay the same rate of tax as everyone else, otherwise what is the point in working hard to build a successful business if the end goal is that the Government will take the majority of your earnings away?

That to me is the current Labour message in regards to taxation and not one I can endorse. It's not just about "equality", it's about fairness.

 

[blue cigar]

Nurses using food banks? They're liars, or utterly shite at managing their money........

Dont be silly or ignorant, whichever it is. Nurses are very poorly paid for the work they do, the hours they do and the stress they deal with. They get awful pay rises usually around 1% and the govt (inc previous labour) take the piss because they know the nurses wont strike. Hardly a suprise they struggle to cope. I'll side with the leader that promises to confront the sitiation.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Dont be silly or ignorant, whichever it is. Nurses are very poorly paid for the work they do, the hours they do and the stress they deal with. They get awful pay rises usually around 1% and the govt (inc previous labour) take the piss because they know the nurses wont strike. Hardly a suprise they struggle to cope. I'll side with the leader that promises to confront the sitiation.

They deserve to be paid more but I am not sure they use food banks?

 

[blue cigar]

Labour supporters talk about Labour "being the party of the working personmore than the Tories", my argument is that just like the Tories, neither is this Labour Party, not anymore.

I've not seen them do anything that's helped us beneficially. Who forced us to work Bank Holidays instead of being given the option to have the day off? Labour did. (oh but we do get an 'extra' week off as a result) Who made it so that companies could stop paying their staff decent wages because they introduced a National Minimum Wage putting everyone on the same lowest conceivable rate? Who did nothing in their 13 years in power to address the unsociable hours issue? I don't expect the Conservatives to do anything but I damn well expected Labour to.

I've never claimed that the Tories are a party that represents the working class. There IS no party that represents workers these days. I'm suggesting to all those who say Labour is for the workers need to speak to the workers, because we're the ones who either don't vote or vote Independent or Greens or Lib Dem, because we don't trust Labour anymore than we do the Tories.

Blair and corbyn have very different outlooks and very different ideas of socialism. Corbyn is the most "labour" leader iv seen in decades and is hammered for it. I dont think we should compare previous labour with this one, corbyn will support the working class as much as he can, he's not perfect but he is at least an alternative and is closer to my ideals than teresa may.

 

[blue cigar]

They deserve to be paid more but I am not sure they use food banks?

Well Andrew marr asked May a direct question about it today, her answer? There are many complex reasons why people use food banks! She did not deny it or answer the question posed, pretty poor from a pm. Maybe Marr was making it up?

 

[Metal Biker]

Blair and corbyn have very different outlooks and very different ideas of socialism. Corbyn is the most "labour" leader iv seen in decades and is hammered for it. I dont think we should compare previous labour with this one, corbyn will support the working class as much as he can, he's not perfect but he is at least an alternative and is closer to my ideals than teresa may.

To me Corbyn is more "Socialist Labour" than "Democratic Labour", but each to their own.

Again, I don't feel that May and the Conservatives have the working classes interest nor do they speak for them on the whole, but again, neither do I feel Labour do. There is still a large element of contempt for us, especially since it was working class labour that voted for Brexit and they despise us for doing so, something they didn't expect. There's almost a sense that the Cooper's, Smith's, Lammy's, Abbott's and Mandelson's of the party seek to 'punish' us for it rather than even attempt to see things from our point of view. Corbyn never truly believed in the idea of the EU or remaining but it looks like he was todied into it by the Blairites in his party just so he could keep order for five minutes, and even after the result they still tried to oust him.

I'd approve of Labour more if they made more effort to remove the Blairites, oppose the EU (like they had done for decades before Blair) and really speak up for the workers instead of adopting the "help the poor" rhetoric of recent years. They make us feel like we don't matter or our concerns play second fiddle to the "save the world" ideology they've taken up. Until it changes, Labour will continue to be slaughtered in the polls. I don't anticipate a Conservative landslide, but neither do I expect a Labour win.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Well Andrew marr asked May a direct question about it today, her answer? There are many complex reasons why people use food banks! She did not deny it or answer the question posed, pretty poor from a pm. Maybe Marr was making it up?

The average salary of a nurse is just over 23k . Food Banks?

 

[Metal Biker]

The average salary of a nurse is just over 23k . Food Banks?

23k? That's more than double what i'm on!

 

[blue cigar]

To me Corbyn is more "Socialist Labour" than "Democratic Labour", but each to their own.

Again, I don't feel that May and the Conservatives have the working classes interest nor do they speak for them on the whole, but again, neither do I feel Labour do. There is still a large element of contempt for us, especially since it was working class labour that voted for Brexit and they despise us for doing so, something they didn't expect. There's almost a sense that the Cooper's, Smith's, Lammy's, Abbott's and Mandelson's of the party seek to 'punish' us for it rather than even attempt to see things from our point of view. Corbyn never truly believed in the idea of the EU or remaining but it looks like he was todied into it by the Blairites in his party just so he could keep order for five minutes, and even after the result they still tried to oust him.

I'd approve of Labour more if they made more effort to remove the Blairites, oppose the EU (like they had done for decades before Blair) and really speak up for the workers instead of adopting the "help the poor" rhetoric of recent years. They make us feel like we don't matter or our concerns play second fiddle to the "save the world" ideology they've taken up. Until it changes, Labour will continue to be slaughtered in the polls. I don't anticipate a Conservative landslide, but neither do I expect a Labour win.

Then we are aligned. I would love labour to be a genuine labour party but they are beset by blairite types and it isnt about to change. My stance is that corbyn at least cares about the poor even if he is misguided with some pledges. Thats why he gets my vote. If may actually mixed with normal people and looked convinced by her ideals i would take note. She has done the opposite and that makes me wary.

 

[blue cigar]

The average salary of a nurse is just over 23k . Food Banks?

Average salary. So some are on much lower? Id suggest those are the ones using food banks. In some parts of the uk 21k will not give you much of a chance.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Average salary. So some are on much lower? Id suggest those are the ones using food banks. In some parts of the uk 21k will not give you much of a chance.

Average salary of teachers is 28k mate. I think we need more food banks as it would seem we all need them, or maybe there are people who can afford to shop at supermarkets but who CHOOSE to get stuff from food banks. It might be their own circumstances granted , or they might be selfish.

I am not sure foodbanks are for people earning over 20k.

 

[denislawsbackheel]

What a twat!

 

[blue cigar]

Average salary of teachers is 28k mate. I think we need more food banks as it would seem we all need them, or maybe there are people who can afford to shop at supermarkets but who CHOOSE to get stuff from food banks. It might be their own circumstances granted , or they might be selfish.

I am not sure foodbanks are for people earning over 20k.

Me neither but it was put to our pm by a respected figure so who am i to question it. Some nurses are on shite money and its quite likely they need to use food banks, maybe we are all a little ignorant and assume they are hardly used? The pm doesnt seem to give a shiny shit thats for sure.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Well things have gone to shit if nurses and teachers need to use food banks that is a sorry state of affairs of our nation. Thats dreadful.

I hope it's not the case.

 

[denislawsbackheel]

According to the DFE the average teacher wage is £37400.

 

[Metal Biker]

Then we are aligned. I would love labour to be a genuine labour party but they are beset by blairite types and it isnt about to change. My stance is that corbyn at least cares about the poor even if he is misguided with some pledges. Thats why he gets my vote. If may actually mixed with normal people and looked convinced by her ideals i would take note. She has done the opposite and that makes me wary.

Brexit is my main issue at present and which party will deliver most on the winning majority.

My family has voted Labour since probably the 1930's, it's engrained in my family's ethos. This Labour are the party of the metropolitan middle classes. They're socialites, not socialists. It's also ironic that so many people criticised Cameron and his cabinet when I consider them to be the most 'left wing' Tory cabinet in recent history, yet people still wanted them out. May is moving the Conservatives more to the right and it's resonating with the public. Does it mean a shift in British society? Possibly, but then it's not surprising given the rhetoric from the left in recent years.

I actually do like Theresa May as PM, she seems more of a doer than a procrastinator to me. We need a doer in this period of EU separation not someone who'll drag their feet. If Corbyn was more like his younger self, anti-EU federalism and wanting the UK out of the Common Market, i'd back him, but even he knows that he'd have to face the backlash of what that would mean amongst his own party members. To get back that core Labour working class support he needs to stop pandering to the socialite, new labour, middle class ethic and start recognising and addressing the concerns of the working people of the UK, no matter how 'unethical' and 'racist' it appears to the metropolitan mindset.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

According to the DFE the average teacher wage is £37400.

Google search I did was lower but you may be right as I thought low. Anyway the point I think is people earning 20k plus really should not feel the need to use foodbanks and if they do need to that is a sorry state of affairs for them and society.