General Election June 8th

[kevin horlocks wand]

thank you very much, I will now have a look

Btw I don't think it should come down, just don't think it needs to go up as already high.

 

[pirate]

Btw I don't think it should come down, just don't think it needs to go up as already high.

thats fair enough but I didnt thin any party was talking about raising the income tax for the top 50%, just the top 1-5%

 

[Gelsons Dad]

Well you have to hand it to Corbyn. He's staring down the barrel of a gun and instead of back peddling he's decided to go full on. He won't step down after he losses and he's backing McDonnell's Marxist stance. Apparently Unite say they will still back him after he loses too! It's great to see a man sticking to his principles regardless of how unpopular they are. The problem for labour of course is that he has stolen their party and is morphing it into a new far left political entity which will become irrelevant in political terms.

The question is what will happen to the more centrist corps of the current party? Will they try and grasp power back, which would seem to be impossible or will they split and form a new party?

Interesting times ahead for Uk politics.

 

[Vic]

Greg Clark just on the Today programme. Not quite in the Dianne Abbott class, but "how are you are going to get immigration down to the tens of thousands when farming and construction and others are all saying we need foreign workers?" - "We'll open a university for the nuclear industry to give people skills". "Why are you promising to peg energy prices?" "We invented a competitive market with a regulator, but obviously it's been crap and people are paying more than they should, but apart from that it's a great system." I paraphrase.

 

[Gabriel]

Greg Clark just on the Today programme. Not quite in the Dianne Abbott class, but "how are you are going to get immigration down to the tens of thousands when farming and construction and others are all saying we need foreign workers?" - "We'll open a university for the nuclear industry to give people skills". "Why are you promising to peg energy prices?" "We invented a competitive market with a regulator, but obviously it's been crap and people are paying more than they should, but apart from that it's a great system." I paraphrase.

Never heard it, and I don't want to call into question your paraphrasing skills, Vic, but what on earth does that even mean in relation to the question? :-)

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

Until somebody comes up with a serious way to reform the voting system, it's all a bit pointless anyway. Nobody ever gets held to account, for anything. In England, 50% of the available seats haven't changed parties once, since 1970 (30% if you go as far back as 1945). Prior to the SNP success in 2015, 49% of all seats in the UK, had stayed in the hands of the same party, since 1970. We had 3 day weeks, IMF bail-outs, winter of discontent, Falklands, Thstcher landslide, Blair landslide, banking crisis, several 'boom and busts and the Iraq war, to name a few. But practically half of the seats didn't change once.
There is something inherently flawed in that system that goes to the heart of the disenchantment with democracy. Where I live the Tory MP, doesn't count their votes they weigh them!

 

[Gelsons Dad]

Never heard it, and I don't want to call into question your paraphrasing skills, Vic, but what on earth does that even mean in relation to the question? :-)

I did hear it and I'm happy to call them into question.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Apparently Unite say they will still back him after he loses too! It's great to see a man sticking to his principles regardless of how unpopular they are. The problem for labour of course is that he has stolen their party and is morphing it into a new far left political entity which will become irrelevant in political terms.

If, which appears likely, Labour get beaten in the GE, then stick with comrade Corbyn, then their function as
an official opposition will almost certainly be for that one term. The far left have never, and will never, hold sway
in this country, so we'll probably get a repeat of the 'Gang of four' scenario, where the SDP came into being, until
Labour finally came to its senses and binned politicians like Foot.
Difference here though, is Jezza is further to the left of Foot, and lacks his intellect by a long shot, something his fans
fail to see, and their massive membership may confine them to the fringes of politics for decades.

 

[mcfc1632]

And the prize for the most desperate article so far goes to:

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/june2017/2017/05/tory-landslide-does-not-equate-mandate-brexit

 

[Ancient Citizen]

And the prize for the most desperate article so far goes to:

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/june2017/2017/05/tory-landslide-does-not-equate-mandate-brexit

The New Statesman, well I never. Desperation is an understatement, blaming May for the state of the Labour party,
then saying it's undemocratic to call an election when the opposition is weak!
These people just can't empathise with others, in their minds, everyone is either stupid or an insensitive bastard unless
we believe in the same things they do.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

I would question that figure.

where doe the figure of 75% of tax receipts come from the top 50% ?

Government figures. I think it's soundly based.

What it doesn't offer is how much comes from the 40% tax bracket, i.e. how much of that is from the lower rate, and how much from the upper rate (as opposed to from people paying the higher rate) - that would be more instructive.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

Where are you getting those numbers from?

80 odd percent general taxation

98.8 percent general taxation AND NI

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/nhs-in-a-nutshell/how-nhs-funded

Something like this:
http://www.ukpublicrevenue.co.uk/breakdown_2016UKbt_17bc5n
I was talking about all government income, just to be clear.

This page (admittedly only up to 2013, has links that appear to have a breakdown of tax by income band. If I read it right, it suggests that the higher band is not a majority of income tax.
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/income-tax-liabilities-by-income-range--2

 

[urban genie]

not that this is a barometer of anything but Jezza stayed in manchester last night, and I know a couple of people who met him from them working where he stays.

One is lib dem and one is labour but not a fan and had misgivings about voting them. Both this morning after meeting and chating to him have said they will be voting labour.

Now the bbc in particular with it's UKIP love in has spent days concocting this marxist, reds under the bed spin of him.
Put that along side the last 2 years of negative coverage from most outlets and maybe if instead of the sensationalism we are fed, actual the real people and policies were reported so people saw the message not this apparent bogey man and fool the elction may be more in the balance.

But hey lets carry on the myths that poor people don't pay more tax, the rich are the wealth creators, and a more equal fair society is envy polotics not just a decent thing to consider.

 

[hilts]

not that this is a barometer of anything but Jezza stayed in manchester last night, and I know a couple of people who met him from them working where he stays.

One is lib dem and one is labour but not a fan and had misgivings about voting them. Both this morning after meeting and chating to him have said they will be voting labour.

Now the bbc in particular with it's UKIP love in has spent days concocting this marxist, reds under the bed spin of him.
Put that along side the last 2 years of negative coverage from most outlets and maybe if instead of the sensationalism we are fed, actual the real people and policies were reported so people saw the message not this apparent bogey man and fool the elction may be more in the balance.

But hey lets carry on the myths that poor people don't pay more tax, the rich are the wealth creators, and a more equal fair society is envy polotics not just a decent thing to consider.

Oh my word

 

[mcfc1632]

The New Statesman, well I never. Desperation is an understatement, blaming May for the state of the Labour party,
then saying it's undemocratic to call an election when the opposition is weak!
These people just can't empathise with others, in their minds, everyone is either stupid or an insensitive bastard unless
we believe in the same things they do.

TBF - in my search for balance I read right across the spectrum - but that was laughable

 

[smudgedj]

Oh my word

Has to be a wum. Hard right BBC - must be the unique way they are funded.

 

[cibaman]

not that this is a barometer of anything but Jezza stayed in manchester last night, and I know a couple of people who met him from them working where he stays.

One is lib dem and one is labour but not a fan and had misgivings about voting them. Both this morning after meeting and chating to him have said they will be voting labour.

Now the bbc in particular with it's UKIP love in has spent days concocting this marxist, reds under the bed spin of him.
Put that along side the last 2 years of negative coverage from most outlets and maybe if instead of the sensationalism we are fed, actual the real people and policies were reported so people saw the message not this apparent bogey man and fool the elction may be more in the balance.

But hey lets carry on the myths that poor people don't pay more tax, the rich are the wealth creators, and a more equal fair society is envy polotics not just a decent thing to consider.

I would be very surprised if they'd said they met him and thought he was a right c**t. Aren't 90+% of polticians capable of coming of coming across as nice, decent men and women on a short one to one meeting?

 

[Cheesy]

not that this is a barometer of anything but Jezza stayed in manchester last night, and I know a couple of people who met him from them working where he stays.

One is lib dem and one is labour but not a fan and had misgivings about voting them. Both this morning after meeting and chating to him have said they will be voting labour.

Now the bbc in particular with it's UKIP love in has spent days concocting this marxist, reds under the bed spin of him.
Put that along side the last 2 years of negative coverage from most outlets and maybe if instead of the sensationalism we are fed, actual the real people and policies were reported so people saw the message not this apparent bogey man and fool the elction may be more in the balance.

But hey lets carry on the myths that poor people don't pay more tax, the rich are the wealth creators, and a more equal fair society is envy polotics not just a decent thing to consider.

All he has to do is to personally meet another 2 or 3 million voters and he's sorted then.

 

[Cheesy]

And the prize for the most desperate article so far goes to:

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/june2017/2017/05/tory-landslide-does-not-equate-mandate-brexit

Yet another example of many on the left saying that if you vote Tory then the only reason you've done so is because you've been brainwashed by the right-wing media.

I've got an idea that might help those lefties..... how about listening to other people with different views to you and accepting that they hold those different viewpoints. Then, debate with them about their views to see if you can change their minds rather than just accusing them of not being capabale of independent thought.

Go on, give it a try. I won't be holding my breath in this one mind.

 

[cibaman]

Yet another example of many on the left saying that if you vote Tory then the only reason you've done so is because you've been brainwashed by the right-wing media.

I've got an idea that might help those lefties..... how about listening to other people with different views to you and accepting that they hold those different viewpoints. Then, debate with them about their views to see if you can change their minds rather than just accusing them of not being capabale of independent thought.

Go on, give it a try. I won't be holding my breath in this one mind.

It didnt think it said that. The New Statesmen is saying that people will vote Tory because the current Labour leadership is abysmal.

"They say opposition parties don’t win elections, governments lose them, but in this instance it was the other way around. You, a highly trained heavyweight boxer, just picked a fight with a frail old man".