General Election June 8th

Who will you vote for at the General Election?

  • Conservatives

    Votes: 189 28.8%

  • Labour

    Votes: 366 55.8%

  • Liberal Democrats

    Votes: 37 5.6%

  • SNP

    Votes: 8 1.2%

  • UKIP

    Votes: 23 3.5%

  • Other

    Votes: 33 5.0%
  • Total voters
    656
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CityStu said:
The Tories have said that they would potentially leave the EU without a deal, so they can cost on that basis. If we then decide on a deal, the costs of that can be individually costed: assets + increased trade - bill = cost. I would hope that an acceptable deal would have a positive cost amount. By heading into the negotiations stating we won't leave without a deal, Labour are leaving that particular cost to the whims of the EU.
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You are spot on - the EU can ask (demand) whatever they like and Labour will either pay it - so £85bn is their starting point - it will only go up with Labour bending over.

So have they costed in £85bn ? Does not seem so - so all their forecasts are built on sand

More likely though they would spend years being fucked over by the EU - with them continuously increasing their bill - and it will most likely end up with us withdrawing the A50 notice and staying - without a rebate, without opt-outs and tail firmly between our legs.
 
Len Rum said:
You mention that to jack up corporation tax rates coinciding with Brexit would be perverse. So the Tories caused the risk and fallout from Brexit which in your view constrains any future government to raise any form of taxes in the Brexit period ( which some commentators expect to last at least five years)? Is that what you're saying?
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It doesn't rule out any increase in taxes, but it should rule out a 7% increase in corporation tax. Its more than likely that tax rates will have to increase post brexit simply to maintain public services at their current level. To announce an intention to increase CT from 19% to 26% now, before we know what the effects of brexit will be, is folly. Some of the things that Labour are talking about using those revenues to fund might seem highly desireable now, but post brexit they'll be completely unaffordable.

If we end up with a hard brexit, as seems likely, businesses will seriously consider relocating their operations and/or cutting back on investment. Sticking them with a 7% increase in tax at the same time would only make those outcomes more certain.
 
mcfc1632 said:
You are spot on - the EU can ask (demand) whatever they like and Labour will either pay it - so £85bn is their starting point - it will only go up with Labour bending over.

So have they costed in £85bn ? Does not seem so - so all their forecasts are built on sand

More likely though they would spend years being fucked over by the EU - with them continuously increasing their bill - and it will most likely end up with us withdrawing the A50 notice and staying - without a rebate, without opt-outs and tail firmly between our legs.
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I distinctly remember Tony Blair going to a EU summit 2005 where it was mooted before hand that the EU wanted to half the rebate negotiated by Thatcher. He stated it was non negotiable unless the French gave up all of their EU common agrucultural subsidy. When he came back from the summit he had given away half our rebate for a promise that the French would look at their subsidy some time in the future. They never did surprisingly. Lol.

Then recently 2014, the equally useless and feeble Osbourne gave away the rest of it when the EU demanded we pay more due to the strength of our black economy lol. He repeatedly said we would only pay half then gave away the rebate on top and still tried to claim we only paid half.

Clearly both should be in jail for numerous crimes against the British people.


Politicians are all the same; weak, feeble, cheats, swindlers, liars and thieves.
 
arbabarshad said:
Sure, I'll respond to the brexit post on Article 50 thread. But I would respond to this post on here as I believe this is more relevant to election policies and parties credibility.

You start by talking about other parties and Labour to assess Tory credibility. Then you provide an excuse (not large enough majority) for Tory government's failure to fulfil election pledges over the last 7 years resulting in lack of or no credibility. That would seem uncommon for an ex labour voter i.e. defending Tory governments poor performance or lack of credibility.

Moreover, you could come up with one promise fulfilled by the government in 7 years. That's not bad.

Now I don't question your stance on Labours credibility but it's conjecture and a very one sided view of the argument. How about Scrutinisng Tory's credibility Based on their performance against their pledges?

Or your prejudice over tory's brexit policy (whether that is right or wrong) means you'll keep your eyes closed to their credibility on other policies and pledges?
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TBF - I did not mean to be 'slippy' - I guess as I was typing my mind moved down avenues of things that I have seen over the last couple of decades.

So to give a clear answer to the question you were asking. I would judge the Tory party's credibility on delivering on it's pledges and promises over the last 7 years as being distinctly POOR.

You can look at every department - take May at the HO and the issue of non-EU immigration controls - and you will find examples in every department.

Even though I could point to similar failings with past Labour governments I have no motivation to beat the drum for the Conservatives in this area.

Now if there was a separate discussion on which party has been the biggest failure, I would be able to bring some direct experiences to bear - both for and against both Labour and the Conservatives - but I am very focussed on June 2017.

We need to get this right - Leaving the EU that is - and therefore as there is only one party preparing to do that then for me it would be good if that party was returned with a large enough majority to see it through.

Given that all promises made in May 2017, by any of the parties, are irrelevant if we get exiting wrong and end up with mega exit bill. I am living in the here and now and believe that on this occasion we are better to focus on the coming few years than the past. People who might have a record of voting 'tribally' might 'on this occasion' vote for May to manage Brexit - they can then return to their normal pattern of voting after this exceptional situation.
 
Len Rum said:
You mention that to jack up corporation tax rates coinciding with Brexit would be perverse. So the Tories caused the risk and fallout from Brexit
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Shocking was it not - unlike Blair in 2004 and 2005, the Conservative party decided to honour a manifesto commitment - truly shocking.

I think that you will find it was that dreadful gaggle of people called the electorate that caused the risk and fallout from Brexit - you might agree with a Clinton term to describe these dreadful voters - '....basket of deplorables' was it?
 
mcfc1632 said:
Shocking was it not - unlike Blair in 2004 and 2005, the Conservative party decided to honour a manifesto commitment - truly shocking.

I think that you will find it was that dreadful gaggle of people called the electorate that caused the risk and fallout from Brexit - you might agree with a Clinton term - '....basket of deplorables' was it?
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He's not the only one...

Clegg-referendum-leaflet-lisbon-2008.jpg
 
bronco said:
Which is not saying all fascists are capitalists is it - just 3 possible examples - I thought you didders lot were bright ?
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So your argument is that not all fascists are capitalists yet you gave three examples of fascists that are to prove your point. You're clearly too smart for me.
 
mcfc1632 said:
Shocking was it not - unlike Blair in 2004 and 2005, the Conservative party decided to honour a manifesto commitment - truly shocking.

I think that you will find it was that dreadful gaggle of people called the electorate that caused the risk and fallout from Brexit - you might agree with a Clinton term to describe these dreadful voters - '....basket of deplorables' was it?
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No Tories.No referendum.No Brexit.
Simples.
 
cibaman said:
It doesn't rule out any increase in taxes, but it should rule out a 7% increase in corporation tax. Its more than likely that tax rates will have to increase post brexit simply to maintain public services at their current level. To announce an intention to increase CT from 19% to 26% now, before we know what the effects of brexit will be, is folly. Some of the things that Labour are talking about using those revenues to fund might seem highly desireable now, but post brexit they'll be completely unaffordable.

If we end up with a hard brexit, as seems likely, businesses will seriously consider relocating their operations and/or cutting back on investment. Sticking them with a 7% increase in tax at the same time would only make those outcomes more certain.
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Tories have fcuked us up big style then haven't they all for the sake of their party unity.
 
SWP's back said:
Nah. You're just thick.

I'm happy to take this discussion up with @urban genie or @Len Rum or any of the other intelligent lefties.
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Oh cheers, like I said this morning capitalim though more inclined to be embraced by right leaning parties is not wedded to that, nazism which the germans were & mousilinis facism followed a more state controlled society, not in any way like socialism, but in no was purely capitalist either.

Then you have anarcho capitalism which rejects any state or government as far removed from facism as can be.

the 3 ideologies socialism, liberalism, conservatism, have many off shoots and each will use an economic system to suit.

Ideologically May is quite far right in her belief the state should monitor everyone and media should be vetted, but as I also said Jezza is no way near marxist or communist in his beliefs more scandinavian social liberal, I am probably more left wing than corbyn and abbot tbf.


on the leaving even with no deal debate, to do that imho would be a disaster, if we were forced to use WTO measures.
 
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west didsblue said:
So your argument is that not all fascists are capitalists yet you gave three examples of fascists that are to prove your point. You're clearly too smart for me.
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Yes 3 examples out of possibly a hundred or so fascists I could mention....maths isn't your strong point I take it ?
 
urban genie said:
Oh cheers, like I said this morning capitalim though more inclined to be embraced by right leaning parties is not wedded to that, nazism which the germans were & mousilinis facism followed a more state controlled society, not in any way like socialism, but in no was purely capitalist either.

Then you have anarcho capitalism which rejects any state or government as far removed from facism as can be.

the 3 ideologies socialism, liberalism, conservatism, have many off shoots and each will use an economic system to suit.

Ideologically May is quite far right in her belief the state should monitor everyone and media should be vetted, but as I also said Jezza is no way near marxist or communist in his beliefs more scandinavian social liberal, I am probably more left wing than corbyn and abbot tbf.


on the leaving even with no deal debate, to do that imho would be a disaster, if we were forced to use WTO measures.
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Tbh my quizzing of people like the Einstein amongst was in retaliation for the absurd conclusion that all socialists are communists that was floating around yesterday?
 
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