Islamic Terrorism: is religion/belief no matter how misguided, the main motivator?

[Brightwell’s left peg]

;)

I see what you did!!

I was a conscientious abstainer.

We were told HIV was running at 60% amongst the girls on the island. Whether that was true I don't know, but it certainly didn't put a lot of the guys off.

 

[Ricster]

Religion is merely some made up bullshit that the west has us believe this is over. It's actually over us terrorising the region for its resources for the last 100years.
When you hear about the stories coming out of Libya of women and children being genitally mutilated because of the result of what our government and the US did 6 years ago, people fleeing the country in the thousands, South Sudanese being enslaved by rebels, thousand drowning in the Med Sea trying to get out, the area has been left to rot.
Whatever people may have said about Gaddafi at least he had the country under control.
Now 22 people are dead and many injured cos someone from a Libyan background decided to take out his revenge on innocent people.

And people still don't believe our government is to blame in any way, shape, or form.

 

[Ricster]

 

[Brightwell’s left peg]

I'm certainly not accusing you of making shit up, sorry about that.

My time in Africa was in the 70's and 80's and from what I witnessed sex came before religion.

No worries.

I was there in 98/99. HIV and AIDS were rife.

Sex was rife and I'm sure still is.

The church and local preachers did/do not allow the only effective way of curtailing it.

 

[Xiphos]

He probably does totally condemn it like he said but the muslim lad interviewed whose first point was to tell everyone the attackers justify it to themselves because kids are being bombed in the middle east all the time. We don't need to be told the vast majority of muslim communities here condemn these attacks but this is how many are thinking and it's part of the problem, allowing the environment for radicalisation to happen. They're overlooking the root issues and I admit they aren't simple and staring everyone in the face but it only needs thinking about logically why western nations keep getting involved there.

Just watched some guy bullshitting about being accused of links to terrorism/extremism in the past by "prevent" as he says by praying 5 times a day which they called extremism. Course next thing he bangs on about is them discriminating against a sect of people and calling it racist too. Again, so quick to pull the race card is part of the problem. The "us" and "them" mentality has already festered within these communities among many because of the issues in the middle east and because they are misinterpreting them. The people here don't have any say on it and i can't see how the attacker didn't realise that growing up here.

Seen the market trader guy going on about 'prevent', it was more or less straight out of his mouth "us" and "them" the idiot just kicked millions of moderate muslims in the knackers

 

[Ban-jani]

Unbelievable lies about Islam, inaccurate quotations from Quran just to proof the lies.

So, around 1.5 billion Muslims are actually not following Islam!!! because they are not terrorist. WAW
Read this from the Qouran
"“Whoever kills a person [innocent person]…it is as though he has killed all mankind. And whoever saves a life, it is as though he had saved all mankind.” (Qur’an, 5:32)" It seems you never read this verse from the Quran, or may be you did but it will not help you with your aim!!!

Now you wrote "People dismiss these people as corrupting the Quran. The problem here is that within the Quran and Haddiths, there are texts that actually command efforts to establish a caliphate and to kill or subjugate non believers and the followers of this doctrine point to these writings from the Prophet as justification, and indeed compulsion to seek these ends"

I will debate you to prove that your are wrong.
show us the verses from Quran that order killing other religious believers and I will explain to you your mistakes.

Everyone who follows Islam is a Muslim. That **** on Monday was too, just as were the many I stood side-by-side with at the Town Hall.

Islamic Jihad is linked to a fraction of Muslims and anyone casting all in the same light is a fucking idiot. Nonetheless the Jihadis are Muslims still.

Our biggest challenge and what we need to do is to work with the vast majority of Muslims (as I'm guessing you are one) to back these cowards into a corner.

The problem with these people is their religious beliefs but not everyone with religious beliefs shares the same problem.

 

[Ban-jani]

Can you please explain to us why you've shared this?

I've seen the film and some of it could be described as having legitimate claim but a lot of it is bullshit.

If you're sharing it insinuate Monday night was part of a wider conspiracy, then you deserve to be permanently banned.

 

[Damocles]

But the soldiers currently causing rampage in Mindanao Philippines have sworn allegiance to ISIS as have Boko Haram in Nigeria and they aren't Salafist jihadists!?

What ever way it is dressed up the people of the religion of Islam throughout the world are causing mass genocide, murdering children, mass murder of Christians and other religions, mutilation, territorial expansion, this you surely cant defend

I can't defend it because you've made it up. "People of the religion of Islam" are doing all the same things you are doing.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

Douglas Murray and Quilliam director Haras Rafiq on the radio.

 

[MadchesterCity]

I can't defend it because you've made it up. "People of the religion of Islam" are doing all the same things you are doing.

come on, something needs to be done about Islamic extremism, off course there are many nice Muslims, obviously that is true, but the way the religion is interpreted by many is a major issue, look at all the global areas of conflict and what the common factor is.

You are an intelligent individual so you must accept this religion has major issues

Anyway i'm out as I decided against discussing these issues on here thanks

 

[Ricster]

Can you please explain to us why you've shared this?

I've seen the film and some of it could be described as having legitimate claim but a lot of it is bullshit.

If you're sharing it insinuate Monday night was part of a wider conspiracy, then you deserve to be permanently banned.

I'm sharing it for the religious part at the beginning ffs

 

[BlueAnorak]

Unbelievable. Staggering actually. You are taking solace in the fact religion has killed only 30M. I assume you're including the recent deaths of millions from Aids in Africa in those numbers due the catholic church's refusal to allow condoms?

The Atheists you mention didn't kill in the name of Atheism.

As for the black death...I'd never before considered assessing the merits of religion by comparing to a bacteria. You might be on to something though.

But the fact is up to 120M were killed by Atheists. That's 4 times more than killed in the name of Christianity.
And please tell me why I can't say those that were killing in the name if Christianity were not being deceived by their leaders? What's the difference to Communism?

 

[johnmc]

Unbelievable lies about Islam, inaccurate quotations from Quran just to proof the lies.

So, around 1.5 billion Muslims are actually not following Islam!!! because they are not terrorist. WAW
Read this from the Qouran
"“Whoever kills a person [innocent person]…it is as though he has killed all mankind. And whoever saves a life, it is as though he had saved all mankind.” (Qur’an, 5:32)" It seems you never read this verse from the Quran, or may be you did but it will not help you with your aim!!!

Now you wrote "People dismiss these people as corrupting the Quran. The problem here is that within the Quran and Haddiths, there are texts that actually command efforts to establish a caliphate and to kill or subjugate non believers and the followers of this doctrine point to these writings from the Prophet as justification, and indeed compulsion to seek these ends"

I will debate you to prove that your are wrong.
show us the verses from Quran that order killing other religious believers and I will explain to you your mistakes.

What does verse 5:33 say?

 

[Damocles]

What does verse 5:33 say?

If somebody attacks Muslims they've either got to be killed, dismembered or exiled.

 

[cucumberman]

Everyone who follows Islam is a Muslim. That **** on Monday was too, just as were the many I stood side-by-side with at the Town Hall.

Islamic Jihad is linked to a fraction of Muslims and anyone casting all in the same light is a fucking idiot. Nonetheless the Jihadis are Muslims still.

Our biggest challenge and what we need to do is to work with the vast majority of Muslims (as I'm guessing you are one) to back these cowards into a corner.

The problem with these people is their religious beliefs but not everyone with religious beliefs shares the same problem.

Ah but this is what we are saying about misinterpretation here mate.

Jihad means to strive. Jihad is when we strive for betterment, such as to refrain from stealing, to love and care for ones parents, to struggle when revising for an exam, to strive for a better job position. These are all jihad. Jihad is to become a better person. To not kill, to give protection to humankind, to forgive others.

The jihad you are implying is 'holy war' or war for the religion, which in Arabic is 'Harbun Muqasadah'. This phrase is not even mentioned once in the book. Jihad is not holy war. The crusades is a holy war. When we read about jihad however, it is to become a better person. When a person strives for something, like revising Math to become a better mathematician, that is jihad. When it's referring to war however, that's not jihad, that's Harbun muqsadah, which is a concept alien to Islam and not mentioned in any of its writings. Even during times of war, conversion was not forced. Rather, other religious faiths were given protection, peaceful treatises were signed, and conversion was voluntary if at all implied.

 

[Millennium]

Everyone who follows Islam is a Muslim. That **** on Monday was too, just as were the many I stood side-by-side with at the Town Hall.

Islamic Jihad is linked to a fraction of Muslims and anyone casting all in the same light is a fucking idiot. Nonetheless the Jihadis are Muslims still.

Our biggest challenge and what we need to do is to work with the vast majority of Muslims (as I'm guessing you are one) to back these cowards into a corner.

The problem with these people is their religious beliefs but not everyone with religious beliefs shares the same problem.

The problem with these criminals who use the name of Islam is their sick brains, how can you kill innocent people and pretend it is for pleasing God? How can you start a dialogue with sick minded people?

One thing I am sure about is do not help them by linking them to Islam, they are not Muslims, most of them never prayed and never been true believers. Come to Islamic world and see yourself how people are living and interacting.

Read the Qouran carefully and you will understand the truth. In Muslim countries the Muslims, Christians and Jewish lived together in peace for generations . Why this happening now?

The problem today is that the Americans in order to hunt and kill one terrorist, they sometimes bomb a village and kill some innocent people who do not have any idea about this war. This creates opportunities for the terrorist groups to recruit more people who might sympathy with the victims. Thus, we end up in a circle that will continue to infinity

 

[Brightwell’s left peg]

But the fact is up to 120M were killed by Atheists. That's 4 times more than killed in the name of Christianity.
And please tell me why I can't say those that were killing in the name if Christianity were not being deceived by their leaders? What's the difference to Communism?

They were killed by psychotic individuals. Those psychotic individuals were not driven to genocide by their atheism, if they even were atheist. It's as relevant to say 120M were killed because the killers were male, or they were a particular star sign, or whatever shoe size they were, as it is to say they were atheists.

Religion and blind faith however is the reason for death, the driving force. I'm not sure what you mean by 'deceived by their leaders'. They're following religious orders. They're killing in the name of their god based on their understanding of a collection of written fairy tales. I also didn't pick up on it, but how many have been killed in the name of Islam or Judaism. The figure of 30M (if correct) is just for the Christian 'team' if I understand you.

You can say what want and believe what you want. Not stopping you or trying to stop you. Just don't call me a sick bastard because I don't subscribe to your delusions, and at the same time tell me you follow a 'love one another' principal. It's as hypocritical as the religion you follow.

This is my last post on the subject.

 

[johnmc]

If somebody attacks Muslims they've either got to be killed, dismembered or exiled.

So reading 5.32 in isolation is a good verse to evidence Islam as a religion of peace. Reading them both together, understanding the context is not necessarily out of kilter with verses in other religious texts. Of their time you might say. But taking 5.33 in isolation and out of context could be used to push radicalisation?

It's difficult for me because you can take verses out in isolation (of the bible as well) that can be used to push hatred. But you would need to read the whole text and what it means in today's terms and context.

Is that fair?

 

[Rosler1985]

It's a fucking excuse always has been. Since the dawn of each religion the followers of each one have killed in the name of it. It's all fucking bollocks. Killing in the name of make believe '' gods'' who were invented by fucking nut jobs thousands of years ago. The whole thing should be banned. Knock down every single place of worship because they're all as bad as each other.

Might go and blow my next door neighbour up or kill him on the name of Jesus Christ our savour because my Unicorn is better than his Dragon.

Fighting, and killing. Bombing and maiming, over fucking fairytales. Cunts.

 

[Magicpole]

Unbelievable lies about Islam, inaccurate quotations from Quran just to proof the lies.

So, around 1.5 billion Muslims are actually not following Islam!!! because they are not terrorist. WAW
Read this from the Qouran
"“Whoever kills a person [innocent person]…it is as though he has killed all mankind. And whoever saves a life, it is as though he had saved all mankind.” (Qur’an, 5:32)" It seems you never read this verse from the Quran, or may be you did but it will not help you with your aim!!!

Now you wrote "People dismiss these people as corrupting the Quran. The problem here is that within the Quran and Haddiths, there are texts that actually command efforts to establish a caliphate and to kill or subjugate non believers and the followers of this doctrine point to these writings from the Prophet as justification, and indeed compulsion to seek these ends"

I will debate you to prove that your are wrong.
show us the verses from Quran that order killing other religious believers and I will explain to you your mistakes.

Unbelievable lies about Islam, inaccurate quotations from Quran just to proof the lies.

So, around 1.5 billion Muslims are actually not following Islam!!! because they are not terrorist. WAW
Read this from the Qouran
"“Whoever kills a person [innocent person]…it is as though he has killed all mankind. And whoever saves a life, it is as though he had saved all mankind.” (Qur’an, 5:32)" It seems you never read this verse from the Quran, or may be you did but it will not help you with your aim!!!

Now you wrote "People dismiss these people as corrupting the Quran. The problem here is that within the Quran and Haddiths, there are texts that actually command efforts to establish a caliphate and to kill or subjugate non believers and the followers of this doctrine point to these writings from the Prophet as justification, and indeed compulsion to seek these ends"

I will debate you to prove that your are wrong.
show us the verses from Quran that order killing other religious believers and I will explain to you your mistakes.

As you will have hopefully noticed, I included a small selection of the horrendous passages in the bible that exult us to kill those who don't believe. You have done the same as Christians who defend the bible, cherry pick and there are great verses and sentiments within the Quran as there is in the bible,

I have collected a few of the many similarly despicable texts as are present in the bible.

The first I think suggests why the bastard who blew himself up killing those children might have read.

Sahih Bukari 52.256 The Prophet... was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, "They (i.e. women and children) are from them (i.e. pagans)
Sahih Muslim (1:33) - the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah
Sahih Muslim (1:30) - "The Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people so long as they do not declare that there is no god but Allah."
Sahih Muslim (19:4321-4323) - Three separate hadith in which Muhammad shrugs over the news that innocent children were killed in a raid by his men against unbelievers. His response: "They are of them (meaning the enemy)."


Sahih Muslim (31:5917) - "Ali went a bit and then halted and did not look about and then said in a loud voice: 'Allah's Messenger, on what issue should I fight with the people?' Thereupon he (the Prophet) said: 'Fight with them until they bear testimony to the fact that there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is his Messenger'."

In your own time.