General Election June 8th

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

i think it was quite a good 'debate' last night. both had quite difficult questions to answer. I thought May came out better though in my opinion.

 

[jay_mcfc]

he doesn't stick to his principles though, otherwise his manifesto is a complete lie. Either his principle is consensus which means he fucked up last night, or his principles are not in the manifesto which means his manifesto is a lie. Can't have it both ways. He's either parked his views and the ones he's adopting are for the good of the party and country, or his views are more important which means the manifesto isn't worth the paper it's printed on and he can't be trusted in Government to act responsibly.

He's covered this point many times, he's the leader of a party and not a dictator. The decision was made to renew trident so it's in the manifesto but he has a person would have great difficulty with pressing the button, something he's very honest about when lying would score him more points.

 

[PannickAtTheDisco]

He's covered this point many times, he's the leader of a party and not a dictator. The decision was made to renew trident so it's in the manifesto but he has a person would have great difficulty with pressing the button, something he's very honest about when lying would score him more points.

the only reason to reach consensus to renew trident is because the consensus is to use it if needed. Therefore, he's either cocked up last night, or lying in the manifesto, and if he's lying in the manifesto, why should anyone believe the rest of it?

 

[Damocles]

i think it was quite a good 'debate' last night. both had quite difficult questions to answer. I thought May came out better though in my opinion.

Same. Corbyn had one point where he rambled in circles and it looked like he was about to talk about when he used to attach an onion to his belt, which was the style at the time.

May benefited from an audience which was much less incisive in questioning than the Sky one. They didn't hold her to account when they could have done, and there was one Labour supporter there who was verbally abusive at times and it made May look sympathetic. She also answered the Bros looking disabled fella really well which was a pretty pivotal moment as Dimbleby didn't have the facts at his disposal about the so called Dementia Tax so gave her a really easy home run.

She gurns does Theresa May in the strangest facial expressions I've seen outside of a constipation advert. But she managed to pull it through where Corbyn looked knackered before he stepped on stage.

 

[jay_mcfc]

the only reason to reach consensus to renew trident is because the consensus is to use it if needed. Therefore, he's either cocked up last night, or lying in the manifesto, and if he's lying in the manifesto, why should anyone believe the rest of it?

No it isn't. The whole reason for trident is to act as a deterrent. And it's still a deterrent despite the moaning from the right wing snowflakes!

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

Same. Corbyn had one point where he rambled in circles and it looked like he was about to talk about when he used to attach an onion to his belt, which was the style at the time.

May benefited from an audience which was much less incisive in questioning than the Sky one. They didn't hold her to account when they could have done, and there was one Labour supporter there who was verbally abusive at times and it made May look sympathetic. She also answered the Bros looking disabled fella really well which was a pretty pivotal moment as Dimbleby didn't have the facts at his disposal about the so called Dementia Tax so gave her a really easy home run.

She gurns does Theresa May in the strangest facial expressions I've seen outside of a constipation advert. But she managed to pull it through where Corbyn looked knackered before he stepped on stage.

I agree with what you've said. Corbyn rambled as you say, watching it I feel like he didn't really answer the questions very well and he didn't come across as very clear. Where as overall I thought May did, she seemed to be actually answering the questions herself at times, rather then going off a script. I dont think either are that good at speaking though. I agree May pulls some weird facial expressions haha

 

[PannickAtTheDisco]

No it isn't. The whole reason for trident is to act as a deterrent. And it's still a deterrent despite the moaning from the right wing snowflakes!

you have to be prepared to use it, or it doesn't work as a deterrent. Corbyn refused to answer a simple question and the answer was in the manifesto he agreed to. He refused to, which means either he cocked up last night, or he lied about the manifesto.

 

[Mancityus]

Who is going to host the 'debate' or negotiations during Brexit - BBC or Sky. Do not think EU has any idea that they will be talking to a TV host instead of May across the table.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

No it isn't. The whole reason for trident is to act as a deterrent. And it's still a deterrent despite the moaning from the right wing snowflakes!

So what do the vast majority of countries that don't have nuclear weapons use as their deterrent?

 

[Damocles]

No it isn't. The whole reason for trident is to act as a deterrent. And it's still a deterrent despite the moaning from the right wing snowflakes!

I'm in the "I don't particularly care if we renew but wouldn't be gutted if it went" camp.

In my most fantastic of imaginative scenarios, I can't see any time we'd use it or someone would use it against us. The Scotch idiot was talking about North Korea in the debate. North Korea! In terms of people they want to nuke, we're about 25th on the list and there's a very real idea that they couldn't hit us anyway due to the distances involved, defence shields and their total inability to aim.

 

[urban genie]

Just finished an hr or two leafleting in Abbey Hey for Azfals campaign, people on the street very positive about labour with some asking if we had window posters to put up or stickers.

Tbf only leaflet recently has been a tory one this morning sent by post as you never see a tory on the doorstep in any election round here, suprised the lib dems have stopped coming round they were full of confidence of taking the seat a month ago.

 

[jay_mcfc]

Same. Corbyn had one point where he rambled in circles and it looked like he was about to talk about when he used to attach an onion to his belt, which was the style at the time.

May benefited from an audience which was much less incisive in questioning than the Sky one. They didn't hold her to account when they could have done, and there was one Labour supporter there who was verbally abusive at times and it made May look sympathetic. She also answered the Bros looking disabled fella really well which was a pretty pivotal moment as Dimbleby didn't have the facts at his disposal about the so called Dementia Tax so gave her a really easy home run.

She gurns does Theresa May in the strangest facial expressions I've seen outside of a constipation advert. But she managed to pull it through where Corbyn looked knackered before he stepped on stage.

I know I'm a Corbynista and without doubt I'm biased but I totally disagree on last night. May did look better but that wasn't difficult considering previous performances. But she was still the same old Tory when it came to the things that really matter to the common person right here and now. She squirms and lies every time she gets asked a question about public services or cuts to disability benefits and the reason for that is very simple - her manifesto and policies offer zero hope to those people. Her only saving grace is being able to pend so much of her time talking about Brexit. I don't agree with her stance on Brexit but I understand that the way she talks she appears like she is strong and decisive and that is a vote winner.

On the contrary I thought for twenty minutes or so Jezza was extremely well polished and seemed confident 1 in his policies and 2 that he can make them work. This is where he's able to express himself best and where he appeals to the man in the street. But even when he started to get questions from small business owners he appeared calm, told them his reasons for increasing taxes and also offered them hope through tax reliefs (something that doesn't get mentioned on here). He obviously became flustered under immense audience pressure to say he would kill millions of people but he didn't lie or try to fool anyone so he'll be castigated for it.

Without Brexit I think May would have been a 3/10. With Brexit a 5/10. Without trident and defence in general I'd have given Jeremy a 8/10 but with it a 6/10.

 

[smudgedj]

So what do the vast majority of countries that don't have nuclear weapons use as their deterrent?

Nothing as the Ukraine found out.

 

[urban genie]

I know I'm a Corbynista and without doubt I'm biased but I totally disagree on last night. May did look better but that wasn't difficult considering previous performances. But she was still the same old Tory when it came to the things that really matter to the common person right here and now. She squirms and lies every time she gets asked a question about public services or cuts to disability benefits and the reason for that is very simple - her manifesto and policies offer zero hope to those people. Her only saving grace is being able to pend so much of her time talking about Brexit. I don't agree with her stance on Brexit but I understand that the way she talks she appears like she is strong and decisive and that is a vote winner.

On the contrary I thought for twenty minutes or so Jezza was extremely well polished and seemed confident 1 in his policies and 2 that he can make them work. This is where he's able to express himself best and where he appeals to the man in the street. But even when he started to get questions from small business owners he appeared calm, told them his reasons for increasing taxes and also offered them hope through tax reliefs (something that doesn't get mentioned on here). He obviously became flustered under immense audience pressure to say he would kill millions of people but he didn't lie or try to fool anyone so he'll be castigated for it.

Without Brexit I think May would have been a 3/10. With Brexit a 5/10. Without trident and defence in general I'd have given Jeremy a 8/10 but with it a 6/10.

yeah but is was a left wing hippie audience, especially the 12 tories that asked 28% of the questions and 6 of them were the ones with the hostile tone when questioning jezza, though the other 6 grilled him and may in equal fashion. She did well as she didn't get flustered, but she said nothing, corbyn got frustrated when badgered and looked like he may lose his temper, but managed to keep controlled, though it will have not helped him, in the eyes of some.

 

[BlueAnorak]

They really don't. And I can assure you we couldn't use our deterrent independently of the USA. I mean, technically we can as you know but not politically. The only way we would be able to fire independently is if the complete Command & Control Infrastructure was destroyed and it's too late by that time.

All this means is that we can use it independently but the USA may refuse to allow us to use their missile delivery system subsequently. You're an intelligent man Colin what don't you get about Deterrents having worked for 65 years and the alternatives being very risky and unproven? Russia and China know that if they use Nukes they will be hit in kind.
Nor is a nuclear deterrent an excuse for Europe not to defend itself conventionally which it really hasn't done for the best part of 35 years and Americans (Democrats too) are rightly miffed about.

 

[Chippy_boy]

i think it was quite a good 'debate' last night. both had quite difficult questions to answer. I thought May came out better though in my opinion.

Better than the car crash of her previous performances, that much is for sure!

I know I'm a Corbynista and without doubt I'm biased but I totally disagree on last night. May did look better but that wasn't difficult considering previous performances. But she was still the same old Tory when it came to the things that really matter to the common person right here and now. She squirms and lies every time she gets asked a question about public services or cuts to disability benefits and the reason for that is very simple - her manifesto and policies offer zero hope to those people. Her only saving grace is being able to pend so much of her time talking about Brexit. I don't agree with her stance on Brexit but I understand that the way she talks she appears like she is strong and decisive and that is a vote winner.

On the contrary I thought for twenty minutes or so Jezza was extremely well polished and seemed confident 1 in his policies and 2 that he can make them work. This is where he's able to express himself best and where he appeals to the man in the street. But even when he started to get questions from small business owners he appeared calm, told them his reasons for increasing taxes and also offered them hope through tax reliefs (something that doesn't get mentioned on here). He obviously became flustered under immense audience pressure to say he would kill millions of people but he didn't lie or try to fool anyone so he'll be castigated for it.

Without Brexit I think May would have been a 3/10. With Brexit a 5/10. Without trident and defence in general I'd have given Jeremy a 8/10 but with it a 6/10.

The bit you have to factor in though mate is that running a country is not a doddle. It's a bloody difficult balancing act and very easy indeed to fuck it up. Just think about all of the countries around the globe with their various challenges. Not every one of them is run by idiots. I don't think Blair or Brown were complete thickos and yet by the end of Blair's reign, they'd manage to run up taxes galore and still put the country into deficit.

Real world challenges means you can't give everyone what they want all the time. It wouldn't be a challenge otherwise, it would be piss easy. And Theresa May has nowhere to hide since her party has been running the country for the past 6 years. The Tories have presided over cuts that have pissed most people right off, even though most people realised they were necessary and hence why Cameron got an outright majority last time, even after 5 years of pain.

Jezzer however, can say what the hell he likes. He can say he'll fix the NHS, walk on a bit of water, give everyone in the country a free electric car, or anything else he fancies. The fact that he won't be able to deliver any of it, cannot be inspected in the same way May's record can be inspected.

It would be staggering in these circumstances if the challenger didn't outperform the incumbent. It's almost impossible for the incumbent to have delivered on absolutely everything perfectly: it's a tough job. So there's always going to be unhappy people and things to criticise.

Jeremy hasn't had to deliver a newspaper, let alone run the country. He's made a career of doing fuck all but sit at the back yelling criticisms. Running the country is a whole different challenge.

 

[urban genie]

Nothing as the Ukraine found out.

And since, despite the anexing of crimea have still commited themselves to the non proliferation treay.

 

[smudgedj]

And since, despite the anexing of crimea have still commited themselves to the non proliferation treay.

Do you think Russia would have thought twice about annexing it if they (the Ukraine) were still the world’s third-largest atomic power?

 

[BlueAnorak]

No it isn't. The whole reason for trident is to act as a deterrent. And it's still a deterrent despite the moaning from the right wing snowflakes!

Well that all depends on whether he changes the standing orders as to retaliation if UK is destroyed or not. The question was never asked, so we don't know the answer.
All I know is if someone like Dan Jarvis was Labour leader, I wouldn't even have to think about asking the question. It's a trust issue and I don''t trust Corbyn on this at all.

 

[urban genie]

Do you think Russia would have thought twice about annexing it if they (the Ukraine) were still the world’s third-largest atomic power?

Who knows? more than likely they would have financed opposition within the country against the ukrainian government and tried to destabalise the country and encourage pro russian groups no matter if it was still full of nukes.