Post Match Thread: Election 2017

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Is it right a 540k signed petition against the Tory/DUP thing now?

If for whatever reason it might fall through - would it be better for Labour to form a minority Govt now, or wait it out until the next election? I'm not sure, since i'm not sure whether this is this Labour's only real shot.
 
I've a lot of time for your posts, PB and you may well be right.

But I still return to the fact thought that to me it is staggering that after:

  • 6 years of really painful Tory cuts
  • deep cuts to our police force and then right at the time of the election, the worst terrorist acts we've seen in this country for years
  • A PM who resided over said cuts
  • A shockingly bad Tory campaign
  • A PM who proved to be a joke; a laughing stock amongst many on both sides
  • No vision painted by the Tories, of hope and how things will be better
and on the other hand:
  • a Labour gift of £28,000 to everyone wanting to go to university (50% of young people)
  • a Labour manifesto that promised 95% of people they'd be better off or no worse off
  • Labour promises to fix all our public services

The Conservatives STILL won. How on earth did that happen? How on earth did the Tories win??? In all normal circumstances, they'd have had their arses handed to them.

The mathematical answer, is that Labour started too far back. They made up enormous ground, but were never going to catch up enough. But that's a trivial answer, and doesn't get to the root of it. WHY were they so far behind to start with? Corbyn has been so deeply unpopular in the public at large, and we have to ask, why is that? Well part of it is certainly down to the media, who clearly hate him. But surely that cannot explain all of it? Why is he so unpopular amongst his own MPs?

In my view, he is simply too left wing to ever be what the country wants or needs. We are no longer a nation of millions of unskilled workers being exploited by evil employers. Powerful hard left unions and union leaders yelling out brothers out, is no longer appropriate in this country. We are country of highly skilled, highly paid employees with excellent relations with their employers. Sensible pay demands (and pay) and no strike agreements. This is the modern reality. Corbyn wishes to return us to what he remembers as a golden era where the unions held the power; the state owned the assets; rich people weren't so rich. Hardly anyone else wants this anymore.

Working class people have aspirations not to be working class. They don't want to work on the shop floor doing menial tasks for poor pay all their lives; they are upwardly mobile. They want a better life for themselves and their kids. Perhaps they want to own their own business. They want to live in a country where business is allowed to thrive, because they want where they work to thrive. Or their own business to thrive.

But some of Corbyn's entourage don't get it. I heard one of his supporters on the TV being asked what she hoped for most in a Corbyn government. She replied, I want the rich to be paid less. That was her very sad 1st priority. Forget making the country better; she just wants other people to be worse off. Corbyn still has some of that in him; a bitter resentment of anyone successful. The broader public can smell it and they don't like it.


only a small point, but the conservatives did not win
 
What about Chuka (sp) the party seemed to give up easy when he cited family reasons not to stand

Chuka may have been a good leader , but he wasn't well liked by some also, probably why when he stood aside he wasn't encouraged to change his mimd more.

The mood in the party after 2010 was changing though and any pro progess member was becomimg less popular.
On a side everyone goes on about Alan Johnson as the leader they never had, but he is despised by many in the unions and memebership, the latter years of new labour is a poisioned challace to anyone associated and this election result has cemented that want to break with those ideas.
 
You're right politics isn't football...you've voted Labour, Libs twice and Tory twice, right?

What other teams do you support?
That's the thing Fumble and you're still not getting.

In the main, one doesn't pick a football team. They are taken at an early age to the ground. They keep being taken. They fall in love with the club and stay with them whatever happens.

With politics it's different. Each time they vote, they are doing so for the party they believe can best run the country at that time.

By asking a question like that then you simply prove my point. You'd vote Labour whoever was in charge. Whatever the manifesto. You've admitted being a party member for 40 years. You campaigned for Blair. That's nothing to be proud of. Was the Blair manifesto anything like the Corbyn one? Or the Kinnock one? Or the Foot one? No, it really wasn't. But I dare say you'd have espoused their individual virtues at each time like the evangelical Labour supporter you are.

Do you not understand that there are floating voters? Do you not understand why they hold sway at each election?
 
No there isn't, and NI is part of the UK amd so part of our system and have a right to be there, as a democracy we will have to live with the government and those in the coalition we get, but doesn't mean it has to sit easy with people.
Do you not agree though that a party with some of the beliefs of the DUP would have not won a seat in the other 3 countries? Because I don't believe they would

But that's the way our system works and life goes on, we have to get on too, but it won't stop being opposed to it.

The system doesn't work and the landscape at the moment is a mess for many reasons, the only thing running this country at the moment is confusion
 
Had it not been for the backlash against wee Jimmy Krankie in Scotland and the Tories in England being propped up by the death of the UKIP vote, Corbyn would be in a very strong position to form the next government this weekend.
That's totally wrong for two reasons.

Firstly, the Labour Party could have simply taken those SNP votes that the Tories took.

Secondly, the swing from UKIP to Labour was greater than UKIP to Tory. The falling apart of the UKIP vote helped Labour more than Conservative.
 
Do you not agree though that a party with some of the beliefs of the DUP would have not won a seat in the other 3 countries? Because I don't believe they would
I think the DUP or any other party that projects it's 18th Century religious views have no place whatsoever in Westminster full stop.
 
Exactly. needed to give the youth something else up there. Which may well have lost him the rest of uk voters.

I haven't seen figures for what happened in the actual election, but the Times poll in the days before it said that, among 18-24 year-olds, Labour were marginally ahead of the SNP and far ahead of the Scottish Conservatives.
 
Is it right a 540k signed petition against the Tory/DUP thing now?

If for whatever reason it might fall through - would it be better for Labour to form a minority Govt now, or wait it out until the next election? I'm not sure, since i'm not sure whether this is this Labour's only real shot.
The petition is pointless (and mis-titled). 13,640,000 voted Tory.

A GE has just taken place. That's a far more democratic tool than a pointless petition started by a busy **** and spread via social media.
 
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