Grenfell Tower block disaster

Anybody know how many people normally resided in the building?

I have heard reports from 200 to many hundreds.

I would have thought many more than 200.
 
geoff clipp said:
I live in London and of the the 5 places I've rented in that time, only one of them seemed to be up to scratch. If you complain, you're out, so they can move the next mug in and you can move into the next death trap.

Its a demonstration of greed beyond belief when you see rents going up at the current rates they are and yet landlords and management companies won't make the relatively tiny reinvestment required to guarantee a minimal level of safety. They've been blatantly getting away with breaking the law for ages now. This has to be the end of the line for these people now.
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I've little doubt that corrupt council practices involving collusion with private contractors for financial gain will turn out to be the root cause of this horrific tragedy. The sickening thing is it's almost certainly happening in other parts of the country too.
 
lancs blue said:
I've little doubt that corrupt council practices involving collusion with private contractors for financial gain will turn out to be the root cause of this horrific tragedy. The sickening thing is it's almost certainly happening in other parts of the country too.
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When a landlord has been ordered by the fire brigade to take a number of measures required by law and they still fail to do so, the property should be seized. That would soon put an end to these illegal practices. If they can't afford to do it, they should be able to apply for an emergency means tested loan to do it.
 
Fire safety is a joke in lots of places. I've worked for the same company in Vietnam and Morocco, but it's a British company and therefore is supposed to follow British safety regulations. The last three fire drills I've done (with children), we've been told we can't use the actual fire exit because it's locked. In fact, in one of those, it wasn't even a drill, it was a kid who'd pressed the alarm.
 
SWP's back said:
From watching the news, the first engines got there within six minutes but access was the problem as opposed to the amount of fire fighters in attendance.

Let's try and keep politics out of this thread whilst the situation is on going. There will be ample opportunity afterwards when the inquest to this tragedy is held.
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No. People supporting cuts saying keep politics out of it.

Even if it turns out not to be a factor here, you can't cut firefighters by 50% and not have extra risks. First pump has 4 riders where it used to be 5, making it unsafe to go in until second pump gets there. By the time you've got two pumps there (as the next pump is further away) what was a kitchen fire might have spread and you've lost the whole house. It's been happening all over the country and the standard response is "it's risk management".
 
cleavers said:
BBC saying 150 families, around 500 people.
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Cheers I would have thought at least that.

The fact 50 have gone to hospital and that figure is by all reports accurate worries me about the number left in their rooms with no hope of getting out.

Lets prey for a number of reasons that many were not in their premises for whatever reason last night.

There is a building near where I live that if full would house around 400 people but its only 40 per cent occupied at the best of times.
 
Fire Safety Expert, Graham Fieldhouse, on BBC news asking a catalogue of awkward questions that have to be asked and answered. He's also making connection to the Lakanal House (Camberwell) fire in 2009 and saying lessons from that do not appear to have been learned.
 
Vic said:
No. People supporting cuts saying keep politics out of it.

Even if it turns out not to be a factor here, you can't cut firefighters by 50% and not have extra risks. First pump has 4 riders where it used to be 5, making it unsafe to go in until second pump gets there. By the time you've got two pumps there (as the next pump is further away) what was a kitchen fire might have spread and you've lost the whole house. It's been happening all over the country and the standard response is "it's risk management".
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I imagine I share your views on this but until the full facts are established it might be best to resist to urge to start politicking about it right away. If only one bit of the residents were saying months ago is true, there will be a lot of questions to be answered, especially by RBKC council. Politics will almost certainly come into it, but we just don't know enough yet.
 
(Apologies if this has been mentioned already) I heard as a local guy discussing the cladding: the cladding went over concrete fluting essentially creating a chimney/air gap up and down the building. When you factor in the cladding itself appears to be totally unsuitable for fire retention then it is indeed a disaster waiting to happen.
There are dozens of recladded tower blocks in and around Manchester.
 
geoff clipp said:
I imagine I share your views on this but until the full facts are established it might be best to resist to urge to start politicking about it right away. If only one bit of the residents were saying months ago is true, there will be a lot of questions to be answered, especially by RBKC council. Politics will almost certainly come into it, but we just don't know enough yet.
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I'd go with that but SWP said keep politics out of it - having just suggested it might have nothing to do with the number of available firefighters. Can't have it both ways.
 
Vic said:
No. People supporting cuts saying keep politics out of it.

Even if it turns out not to be a factor here, you can't cut firefighters by 50% and not have extra risks. First pump has 4 riders where it used to be 5, making it unsafe to go in until second pump gets there. By the time you've got two pumps there (as the next pump is further away) what was a kitchen fire might have spread and you've lost the whole house. It's been happening all over the country and the standard response is "it's risk management".
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cleavers said:
Yes, lets keep politics out of it please.
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Vic said:
I'd go with that but SWP said keep politics out of it - having just suggested it might have nothing to do with the number of available firefighters.
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Now is not the time for that though, you (we) have no idea how many firefighters were immediately available (or where from), and if they could have done anything much to help people. Witnesses from within the building said the building was fully alight within 15 minutes, and that there was only one escape route, the same route that the firefighters were going in to rescue people.
 
somapop said:
(Apologies if this has been mentioned already) I heard as a local guy discussing the cladding: the cladding went over concrete fluting essentially creating a chimney/air gap up and down the building. When you factor in the cladding itself appears to be totally unsuitable for fire retention then it is indeed a disaster waiting to happen.
There are dozens of recladded tower blocks in and around Manchester.
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Heard that chap, too. Really got the impression that the fire went straight up one end of the building and then more slowly spread across each floor. Would have thought buildings were tested for such conditions.
 
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