Article 50/Brexit Negotiations

[cibaman]

Has anyone yet come up with a workable solution for Ireland? One that works for both trade between NI and ROI and also NI and GB? One that would be acceptable to both sides of the political divide?

 

[cibaman]

According to Tom Newton Dunn on Sky paper review tonight there is a meeting of the Brexit cabinet sub committee tomorrow when the gloves will be off.
Apparently spreadsheet Phil is going to press for membership of the customs union ( which means foxy Liam is out of a job).
May is reportedly out of it at the moment on Brexit and is just a figurehead.
Three months gone of the allotted 18 months ( two years less six months for the EU 27 to ratify the deal) and we still haven't even got the basics of a plan agreed.
YCNMIU Jeff.

Its the two year timetable where the madness lies. We've had 40 years of economic integration with Europe and now we're trying to replace it within two years.

I could perhaps live with a "hard Brexit", providing it were phased in over a minimum of 7 years. Time to sort out the trading and cutoms issues. Time to adapt. The thought of what might happen if we stick to the current timetable horrifies me.

For me, one of the most valid arguments raised by Leave during the referendum campaign was over how the EU might develop. "Ever increasing union", further enlargement, an EU army, the potential for meltdown in the Eurozone etc did seem to me to be valid concerns. If we legally leave the EU in March 2019 we wouldn't become immunised from those developments because they would still affect the UK, but we would have massively distanced ourselves from them. Massively reduced our risk. Even if nothing else changed on day one.

A legally binding transition plan whereby we gradually "take control" over immigration, gradually extricate ourselves from the single market is essential. If the UK and EU could agree that, I think the debate over hard v soft brexit would become much less divisive.

 

[vonkeynotvenky]

A legally binding transition plan whereby we gradually "take control" over immigration, gradually extricate ourselves from the single market is essential. If the UK and EU could agree that, I think the debate over hard v soft brexit would become much less divisive.

I would definitely agree with that,

 

[CitizenTID]

People with an ounce of compassion?

That is out of the question. Opening the doors to millions of people coming from a war zone (many jumping on the bandwagon from perfectly stable places) is not a sustainable solution - there are always world conflicts, commonly in Africa/Middle East. Permanent residency is not a solution to an issue of requiring temporary safety. I've said on here before the UN need to back a proper, long-term solution for these temporary matters. If large numbers of people from poorer countries constantly move to the richer countries, it will eventually cause serious problems for that country and collapse infrastructure to support that many people - turning a well performing country into a shithole those immigrants wouldn't chose to live in.

Besides all that - legally speaking (as long as they haven't agreed prior), there is zero right for people to demand a country they are not from or have citizenship in to take in any immigrants. Those are matters of sovereignty to decide what's best for their own people, unlike international humane laws against chemical weapons and the like that require external pressures to ensure basic human rights.

I'm not saying don't help refugees, I'm saying do it sensibly in everyone's interests. It's in the interests of those refugees to be helped to live in their own country and build that country into a good place to live. There are other complex issues then though such as exterior countries meddling for their own gains without conscience for the people there - these types of countries need to be held to account.

 

[BobKowalski]

Its the two year timetable where the madness lies. We've had 40 years of economic integration with Europe and now we're trying to replace it within two years.

I could perhaps live with a "hard Brexit", providing it were phased in over a minimum of 7 years. Time to sort out the trading and cutoms issues. Time to adapt. The thought of what might happen if we stick to the current timetable horrifies me.

For me, one of the most valid arguments raised by Leave during the referendum campaign was over how the EU might develop. "Ever increasing union", further enlargement, an EU army, the potential for meltdown in the Eurozone etc did seem to me to be valid concerns. If we legally leave the EU in March 2019 we wouldn't become immunised from those developments because they would still affect the UK, but we would have massively distanced ourselves from them. Massively reduced our risk. Even if nothing else changed on day one.

A legally binding transition plan whereby we gradually "take control" over immigration, gradually extricate ourselves from the single market is essential. If the UK and EU could agree that, I think the debate over hard v soft brexit would become much less divisive.

I never understand how quitting the EU distances ourselves from the 'much anticipated yet never quite arrives' Eurozone collapse. I mean we are not even in the Eurozone so nothing changes there whether we are in or out of the EU and if it did collapse then we are fucked anyway given the biggest trading bloc 20 miles away just went tits. And if the world's largest trading bloc goes tits I suggest it is going to have world wide ramifications.

Also given we make a stonking wedge out of Eurozone trading wouldn't it be prudent to work with it and ensure it doesn't go tits?

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

Think we should cancel Brexit tomorrow. I'm off to Spain on Saturday and I want a lot more Euros for my quids than are currently on offer!

 

[Vic]

Euro heading for parity with the pound. Someone will say it's good for exports.

 

[CitizenTID]

Has anyone yet come up with a workable solution for Ireland? One that works for both trade between NI and ROI and also NI and GB? One that would be acceptable to both sides of the political divide?

I only see it working as effectively keeping NI within the single market with freedom of movement. There'd have to be harder checks between the island of Ireland and Britain.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

I only see it working as effectively keeping NI within the single market with freedom of movement. There'd have to be harder checks between the island of Ireland and Britain.

The nationalists would love that wouldn't they? There is no solution other than stay in the EU.

 

[cibaman]

I only see it working as effectively keeping NI within the single market with freedom of movement. There'd have to be harder checks between the island of Ireland and Britain.

Aren't the DUP opposed to that? It might solve the NI-ROI issue but creates similar problems between NI and GB. Wouldn't it mean tariffs on NI "exports" to GB, border checks on NI citizens? And, of course, the DUP see it as a first step to unification.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Hope it drags on forever, just to annoy the brexiters who have some weird fixated obsession of coming out of a union that never affected them personally and has only prospered this nation.

 

[inchy14]

Hope it drags on forever, just to annoy the brexiters who have some weird fixated obsession of coming out of a union that never affected them personally and has only prospered this nation.

So fuck democracy eh?

Whether you are remain or brexit the vote was won by the brexiters and now we should abide by that vote. It's frankly laughable that people want to pick and choose which aspects of living in a democratic society they will adhere to. Get over it, you lost and democracy must now take it's course.

 

[Gaylord du Bois]

Hope it drags on forever, just to annoy the brexiters who have some weird fixated obsession of coming out of a union that never affected them personally and has only prospered this nation.

I'm not sure your keyboard could take it, tbh.

 

[BlueHammer85]

So fuck democracy eh?

Whether you are remain or brexit the vote was won by the brexiters and now we should abide by that vote. It's frankly laughable that people want to pick and choose which aspects of living in a democratic society they will adhere to. Get over it, you lost and democracy must now take it's course.

I never wanted the vote in the first place - it's only because Farage built up a wave of anti Imigrant sentiment that forced Cameron's hand to hold one - Yes we should respect the democractic vote but if it means economy will fuck up, businesses leave and create even more problems then surely we can't just put our fingers in our ears and just say 'well we voted to leave'

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Its the two year timetable where the madness lies. We've had 40 years of economic integration with Europe and now we're trying to replace it within two years.

I could perhaps live with a "hard Brexit", providing it were phased in over a minimum of 7 years. Time to sort out the trading and cutoms issues. Time to adapt. The thought of what might happen if we stick to the current timetable horrifies me.

For me, one of the most valid arguments raised by Leave during the referendum campaign was over how the EU might develop. "Ever increasing union", further enlargement, an EU army, the potential for meltdown in the Eurozone etc did seem to me to be valid concerns. If we legally leave the EU in March 2019 we wouldn't become immunised from those developments because they would still affect the UK, but we would have massively distanced ourselves from them. Massively reduced our risk. Even if nothing else changed on day one.

A legally binding transition plan whereby we gradually "take control" over immigration, gradually extricate ourselves from the single market is essential. If the UK and EU could agree that, I think the debate over hard v soft brexit would become much less divisive.

We have terminated a contract .....its as simple as that ...Why anyone thinks that we will get exactly what we want from the EU beggars belief. They will agree to trade with us only in areas that they want to and where it gives them a competitive advantage.

What makes you think we've got two years as well ......any annual contract with an EU company (such as an insurance policy) which will be due for renewal after March 2018 will not be able to be renewed as a 'passport or agreement' will not be in place to cover off the period of time after March 2018

 

[inchy14]

I never wanted the vote in the first place - it's only because Farage built up a wave of anti Imigrant sentiment that forced Cameron's hand to hold one - Yes we should respect the democractic vote but if it means economy will fuck up, businesses leave and create even more problems then surely we can't just put our fingers in our ears and just say 'well we voted to leave'

And if we ignored the decision? Then what? We don't know if businesses will be fucked up, i'm sure some will and others will rise and take their place.

At the end of the day a decision was made, we can't now change our minds because those who lost shout loudest.

 

[dave_blue12]

So fuck democracy eh?

Whether you are remain or brexit the vote was won by the brexiters and now we should abide by that vote. It's frankly laughable that people want to pick and choose which aspects of living in a democratic society they will adhere to. Get over it, you lost and democracy must now take it's course.

Ours is a parliamentary democracy. The referendum was advisory and parliament was under no compulsion to follow the result.

You spout about democracy but clearly don't understand how our democracy works.

In other democracy's where there is a referendum on a subject of such magnitude there is normally a higher bar to effect change, for example a 60% majority not just a straightforward majority. Our referendum result swung on around 600,000 votes which is a quite ridiculously small number to bring about such huge change.

The triumphalism of the Brexiteers on this thread is truly pathetic. What exactly do you think you've won ?

So far all you've won is a downturn in our economy. We will await what other delights are in store.

 

[inchy14]

Ours is a parliamentary democracy. The referendum was advisory and parliament was under no compulsion to follow the result.

You spout about democracy but clearly don't understand how our democracy works.

In other democracy's where there is a referendum on a subject of such magnitude there is normally a higher bar to effect change, for example a 60% majority not just a straightforward majority. Our referendum result swung on around 600,000 votes which is a quite ridiculously small number to bring about such huge change.

The triumphalism of the Brexiteers on this thread is truly pathetic. What exactly do you think you've won ?

So far all you've won is a downturn in our economy. We will await what other delights are in store.

The great unwashed as you obviously think they are, were given a vote (whether rightly or not) on whether they would like the UK to stay inside the EU. A decision was made, now no one knows for definite what the long term implications will be but a decision was made. If parliament wish to ignore this decision they should have done so but that wasn't stated from the outset and the people chose.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Ours is a parliamentary democracy. The referendum was advisory and parliament was under no compulsion to follow the result.

You spout about democracy but clearly don't understand how our democracy works.

In other democracy's where there is a referendum on a subject of such magnitude there is normally a higher bar to effect change, for example a 60% majority not just a straightforward majority. Our referendum result swung on around 600,000 votes which is a quite ridiculously small number to bring about such huge change.

The triumphalism of the Brexiteers on this thread is truly pathetic. What exactly do you think you've won ?

So far all you've won is a downturn in our economy. We will await what other delights are in store.

And you're spouting about democracy, yet in denial about a result you didn't like.
A referendum was called because of public demand, nobody successfully challenged it because there was
a general consensus for one. Never, anywhere, were there any clauses on the percentages you refer to, it was held,
and more people voted out than has ever been than in any other referenda or election.
There has been no downturn in our economy because of the referendum, we've taken a dip because of the recent
election throwing up a hung parliament, which is entirely different.

 

[denislawsbackheel]

There is no such word as referenda.

People who use it just look dumb.