Grenfell Tower block disaster

SpiritofBurnden said:
They're talking about requisitioning some of the empty properties in Kensington to re-house some of the people who've lost their homes.

Maybe they should also be asking why foreign investors are allowed to buy up property in this country and then leave it empty whilst it appreciates in value. It's no wonder there's a housing shortage.
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I doubt foreign investors are buying up property that would be in the budget range of those that are suffering due to the housing shortage.
 
KnaresboroughBlue said:
I doubt foreign investors are buying up property that would be in the budget range of those that are suffering due to the housing shortage.
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Those properties are priced in that 'budget range' precisely because foreign investors have got the cash to buy them. If they weren't allowed to, there wouldn't be as much of a market for them and the price wouldn't be as inflated.

There is a huge re-development going on in Hackney at the moment. Whole council estates being demolished to make way for private development. Something like 55% of the first phase of properties were marketed in Asia to foreign investors who will in all probability never live there.
 
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Vic said:
Where on earth do you get that from? You haven't read BS 9251:2014 have you?

It's about £1200 a flat to retrofit a block with sprinklers. Add in annual maintenance and spread the cost over 30 years and it's £50 per flat per year.

http://www.bre.co.uk/filelibrary/Sustainability through Planning/Callow_mount_Retrofitting_sprinkler_systems_Steve_Seaber.pdf
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Sprinklers are often limited to communal areas in flats hotels and the like. Check it out next time you are in in a hotel. Someone else mentioned it earlier that his block is sprinklered but not in the individual flats. I'm not saying you can't have sprinklers in individual flats just would be rare.

I'd guess people don't want them going off accidentally in their property for starters and they may want to redecorate or what have you.

I would add however insurance companies will give big discounts on sprinklered properties so they will recoup a chunk of the outlay over several years discounted premium.
 
Question then - if you're buying a new house, would you want it to be £2000 dearer to have sprinklers?

We know whether it's worth it - £6.7m per life saved. (I think the stats for flats may have changed since yesterday.) Welsh government still went ahead.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-18266064
 
mancityvstoke said:
The problem with council blocks and sprinklers is the dickheads who would set them off with lighters.

sad but true
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Well, that's why you'd have them in your own flat and not communal areas. (Or are you thinking they'd all go off? too many Hollywood films...)
 
Vic said:
Question then - if you're buying a new house, would you want it to be £2000 dearer to have sprinklers?

We know whether it's worth it - £6.7m per life saved. (I think the stats for flats may have changed since yesterday.) Welsh government still went ahead.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-18266064
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I'm all for sprinklers in blocks of flats and high rise blocks but I'd question the value of it in a two storey house where smoke detectors are statutory. They would likely go off before the sprinklers. Guess it might limit the damage to the property.
 
karen7 said:
Can we wait for official news on the number of deceased
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We can, but those numbers are being quoted now because the community are trying to say (as highlighted in the Lily Allen interview) that the authorities are trying to minimise what's actually happened. There's a lot of people saying this now and I'd be surprised if they're wrong.
 
The news that the number of people that died in the Grenfell Tower Fire will likely rise above 100 is horrific and it is quite right that a public enquiry has been called - though this should run behind an inquest that gives the residents and victims families the ability to cross examine witnesses - that a public enquiry dies not. The Inquest identifies what happened and the public enquiry should identify how things can be improved.
I am not going to play a blame game now as it will become apparent that over time Labour, Coalition and Conservative governments, local authorities, the building industry as well as the Tower block owners will share little bits of whatever "blame" has to be passed around.
Such an enquiry will be made against a UK historical policy of "Passive" fire protection in which fire in a high rise block is contained in a room, flat or floor of a high rise building without it spreading to other floors or the whole building. That said, some fundamental questions have to be asked:
1. Why were Fire Safety assessments downgraded to " Self Assesments" in 2006? Also why did this move to self assesment not result in mandatory regular phyical fire safety inspections for all modifird high rise buildings and an appropriate level of random physical fire safety inspections for other buildings? By reducing most inspection to the review of a self assesment dicument for a building, without visiting the building, does not cut it for me I'm afraid.
2, The coroner for the 2009 Camberwell fire indicated in 2013 that fire and building regulations had to be reassessed, but this seems to have fallen down the cracks between the government and BRAC - the Building Regulations Advisory Committee a body run jointly by the Government and Local Authorities. Why was this not chased by a multitude of different bodies who knew of the coroner's findings?
3. Who on earth in the construction industry thought polyurethane blocks covered in aluminium sheets could be used to clad an existing high rise building? Even if saturated in fire resistant chemicals the polyurethane will burn at very high temperatures, worse. It could melt leaving the gap between the old concrete and metal outer cladding to act as a chimney to ferry the fire and heat up the building with the heat starting fires on other floors. At high enough temperatures Aluminium also burns which makes the heat more intense where the fire has already taken hold.
4. Is the use of a "Passive" fire protection policy for high rise building in the UK sufficient? Do sprinklers fire curtains and othef methods of fire protection need to be employed? Do high rise buildings need additional stairwells to provide a method of escape.
5. Public complaints about the safety of Grenfell Tower were clearly ignored by the owner and Local authority. How can this be improved and building owners forced to maintain a safe building? It is reported that power surges were a regular occurrence in Grenfell Tower. This is a major cause of fire in electrical appliances and equipment, yet they were seemingly ignored.
 
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geoff clipp said:
We can, but those numbers are being quoted now because the community are trying to say (as highlighted in the Lily Allen interview) that the authorities are trying to minimise what's actually happened. There's a lot of people saying this now and I'd be surprised if they're wrong.
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How can they possibly minimise the numbers? that is shock and highly charged emotions talking
 
geoff clipp said:
We can, but those numbers are being quoted now because the community are trying to say (as highlighted in the Lily Allen interview) that the authorities are trying to minimise what's actually happened. There's a lot of people saying this now and I'd be surprised if they're wrong.
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They're not trying to minimise it, they just don't know yet and won't for some time.

Some of the victims may never be identified and anyone who's seen those photos of what's left of the interiors of the flats can see why.
 
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