Shooting at Mandalay Bay Resort (Las Vegas)

[Don Karleone]

Someone has tweeted it's a hoax?

You have to be a special kind of bastard to that, today of all days!

 

[Jazzcat]

Even the safest states have a gun murder rate more than 10 times the UK and the worst are 100 times the UK. Clearly they need more guns.

Staggering statistics really and still they don't seem to realise what's plain for all to see.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

There was a story (could have been an urban myth) that, when London Bridge was bought in the 60's, the purchasers were expecting Tower Bridge to turn up!!!

I fly over it all the time!!! Lake Havasu...not that far south of Vegas!

 

[ChicagoBlue]

Staggering statistics really and still they don't seem to realise what's plain for all to see.

We see it....the bad guys have guns, so the good guys arm themselves to protect themselves from the bad guys.

Now, if you could just have told ANYONE that the Vegas shooter was a bad guy beforehand, none of this would have happened!

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

The irony in your post is laughable.

Whether committed with intent or as part of mental illness, the act of killing another human is evil. The act of killing 58 people and injuring 500 is close enough to pure evil.

I'm not sure there is anything ironic in saying Trump jumped to conclusion as to the motives of the shooter.

 

[Jazzcat]

We see it....the bad guys have guns, so the good guys arm themselves to protect themselves from the bad guys.

Now, if you could just have told ANYONE that the Vegas shooter was a bad guy beforehand, none of this would have happened!

Oh, so there are just more bad guys on average then. Righty-ho, carry on.

 

[Brightwell’s left peg]

because he had no testicles probably... fucking warped, weak individual

Blame the idiocy that allows this to happen.......... a system where Joe public can buy military grade small-arms is pretty unbelievable in this day and age, sorry

There are many exceptions but this could easily be described as a nation of fucking fruit loops....

If you're interested in making a quick profit, buy shares in whoever manufactures the guns he used.

After the kids got shot at, a Texan boss of mine went out and purchased the same semi automatic rifles usedat Sandy Hook...I shit you not.

There will be a large swathe of fucking lunatics stroking their chins and quietly impressed by this performance.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

It is hard to care too much when these thing happen any more. The answer is in the hands of the American people. One third of them own a gun which means two thirds don't - they love to tell us its a democracy yet law makers say the gun lobby is all powerful. Anybody else able to see where two thirds can beat one third in a democratic push to bring in greater gun control? Won't solve things overnight but it would be a start to maybe change attitudes. I am sick to death of Americans saying guns don't kill people people kill people and they have the right to bear arms etc..........if enough Americans wanted it then it could happen - they just have to make their voice heard

That's the problem. Too many people with guns won't turn them in if made illegal, because they believe they have a constitutional right to own them, and a few will bar the door and dare the police to come and get them if John Law becomes proactive (see the Branch Davidians, which weren't about guns, but the plenty will fear that the outcome will be similar). Those that don't turn them in have even MORE relative power because they own the "scarce resource." That's the thing about weapons -- once you have them, having to give up the power over someone else's life is very hard to do. The very pragmatic reality of an attempt made on the the "life" of the 2nd Amendment is anarchy no one wants to risk. As I said -- the nutter side of the NRA are terrorists. Because this is the implicit (or explicit) threat they carry.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

Oh, so there are just more bad guys on average then. Righty-ho, carry on.

Not sure how you get there from the hundreds of millions of guns and millions of law abiding gun owners out there?

We are a very big country with wide open spaces and many a good reason to own guns. Some people don't have the best of motives.

Let's just understand one thing: People who don't live here don't (maybe can't?) understand and I'm not going to change that here.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

That's the problem. Too many people with guns won't turn them in if made illegal, because they believe they have a constitutional right to own them, and a few will bar the door and dare the police to come and get them if John Law becomes proactive (see the Branch Davidians, which weren't about guns, but the plenty will fear that the outcome will be similar). Those that don't turn them in have even MORE relative power because they own the "scarce resource." That's the thing about weapons -- once you have them, having to give up the power over someone else's life is very hard to do. The very pragmatic reality of an attempt made on the the "life" of the 2nd Amendment is anarchy no one wants to risk. As I said -- the nutter side of the NRA are terrorists. Because this is the implicit (or explicit) threat they carry.

Well stated.

In addition, I would merely point out that the current President has talked to many of these people in words they understand, such as "drain the swamp!" Many Trump voters believe the country has moved away from them and their desires for what America is and should be (and even FOR WHOM!), which is why he speaks to them from the podium so often. He wants them to know he is there and he hears them, because he wants to be around for a good long while. Meanwhile, he and his friends at Breitbart and Hannity explain how their conspiracy theories into the US Government are actually based on "real news" rather than the "fake news" of which they speak consistently.

 

[Jazzcat]

Not sure how you get there from the hundreds of millions of guns and millions of law abiding gun owners out there?

We are a very big country with wide open spaces and many a good reason to own guns. Some people don't have the best of motives.

Let's just understand one thing: People who don't live here don't (maybe can't?) understand and I'm not going to change that here.

You'd get there by simply comparing the statistics and if you can't see the direct correlation between the number of shooting incidents and the amount of weapons in circulation then you're beyond help.
Some people don't have the best intentions, indeed, and providing over the counter weaponry and ammunition surely won't mitigate the amount of shooting incidents or the potential damage they can do.
If anything, it just creates a larger illegal market and increases the risk of people getting shot, bad intentions or not.
Do you really think that an armed populace is an effective way of combatting 'bad guys' and gun crimes??
I think it's already been proven that the right to carry is in no way a deterrent, otherwise we'd have seen less shooting incidents by now, instead the numbers are steadily increasing.
So yes, there are people with ample reasons to own a gun but fending off bad guys really isn't one of them as it's simply not working.

 

[tshirtman]

This! And from one who lives in the militia capital of America and another from the murder capital! What a pair, eh?!

When was the last time either of was in Manchester, also which part of the city was you in?
just wondering so I can avoid those parts that are more dangerous than 98% of the US.

 

[Barcon]

Not sure how you get there from the hundreds of millions of guns and millions of law abiding gun owners out there?

We are a very big country with wide open spaces and many a good reason to own guns. Some people don't have the best of motives.

Let's just understand one thing: People who don't live here don't (maybe can't?) understand and I'm not going to change that here.

A bit like Canada.

 

[Uncle Wally One Ball]

A bit like Canada.

But with added knuckledraggers. America. Fuck yeah!

 

[ChicagoBlue]

You'd get there by simply comparing the statistics and if you can't see the direct correlation between the number of shooting incidents and the amount of weapons in circulation then you're beyond help.
Some people don't have the best intentions, indeed, and providing over the counter weaponry and ammunition surely won't mitigate the amount of shooting incidents or the potential damage they can do.
If anything, it just creates a larger illegal market and increases the risk of people getting shot, bad intentions or not.
Finally do you really think that an armed populace is an effective way of combatting 'bad guys' and gun crimes??
I think it's already been proven that the right to carry is in no way a deterrent, otherwise we'd have seen less shooting incidents by now, instead the numbers are steadily increasing.
So yes, there are people with ample reasons to own a gun but fending off bad guys really isn't one of them as it's simply not working.

Have you ever taken the time to look into how many incidents of good shooter saving people there are?

As for an armed populace, there are many examples of large armed populations who do not commit such crimes.

Listen, I'm as horrified as everyone here. What I'm TRYING to do is explain to people who think it is simply a matter of "changing the law" are out to lunch and lack any understanding of American history or life.

I take issue with your last point, but we are so far gone here, that it's not worth it.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

A bit like Canada.

With the Constitutional Right to have no restrictions on it, of course. Oh wait...!

I'm not here to defend America, only to try to help others understand why so many Americans own guns and feel the need to.

I'm disgusted by gun crime and think they should throw away the key for those that commit crimes using guns! I'm serious on law and order...but I'm also a gun owner! Crazy me, huh?!

 

[Irwell]

What I'm TRYING to do is explain

What you should be trying to do is understand it and resolve it, not explain it. Certain factions in your country have spent decades trying to explain it when what was needed was action rather than explanation. Unfortunately the factions trying to explain it have significant financial motivation not to act on it.

 

[Uncle Wally One Ball]

Have you ever taken the time to look into how many incidents of good shooter saving people there are?

As for an armed populace, there are many examples of large armed populations who do not commit such crimes.

Listen, I'm as horrified as everyone here. What I'm TRYING to do is explain to people who think it is simply a matter of "changing the law" are out to lunch and lack any understanding of American history or life.

I take issue with your last point, but we are so far gone here, that it's not worth it.

Change America life then. That needs to start culturally. People in this country used to drive home from the pub after 9 pints. It gradually became culturally unacceptable after an initial concerted campaign

 

[mcfcphil]

Not sure how you get there from the hundreds of millions of guns and millions of law abiding gun owners out there?

We are a very big country with wide open spaces and many a good reason to own guns. Some people don't have the best of motives.

Let's just understand one thing: People who don't live here don't (maybe can't?) understand and I'm not going to change that here.

While I don't agree I can just about see the argument of someone living in rural/remote areas where guns are part of every day life on ranches etc or people wanting a gun at home for protection against intruders etc.

But we're talking about machine guns here. There is nothing constitutional about a machine gun and there is absolutely no legitimate reason for any civilian to require possession of a machine gun. It's totally obscene.

 

[willipp]

I'd take CA over I Drive all day, every day. Daytona is much nicer than it once was. Go down south, beachside towards New Smyrna, for some peace and quiet, but also be aware that stretch of beach is a shark haven! Google and YouTube will provide evidence!

Funny you should mention this, there is a programme on channel 5 here right now about atracks at that beach where there were 2 attacks in one day. Never heard of that beach until u mentioned it and 5 minutes later a programme starts. Saying they were black tipped sharks.