Shooting at Mandalay Bay Resort (Las Vegas)

[ChicagoBlue]

I've never been or wanted to visit the US, it holds no interest to me.

The last time I held or shot a gun would have been in the late 70s whilst as an army cadet, and it was a 303 rifle,.

Although I don't have to explain myself, I'm not the one making bold claims that Manchester is more dangerous than 98% of the US, am I.

That wasn't me that made that claim, either, but I agreed with it.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

It all sounds so strange. From reports I have read this is a guy who wasn't particularly clued up on weaponry, lived a quite life and this is totally unexpected. It just seems very very odd.

RIP to all those who lost their lives.

This is the quandary. What "screen" would have stopped a retired accountant with no known criminal record or history of psychiatric care from legally owning a gun? None. But, why did he own 28 guns that we know of already?

There has to be much more to this story than we know today, but what that is????

 

[ChicagoBlue]

FYI

Second Amendment

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

In the 2008 case District of Columbia v. Heller, the Supreme Court held:

"Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home."

As you can see, the fourth word of the 2A (Militia) is virtually ignored by Heller, even though some people believe it is a key word. However, those same people who want it only to be associated with militia (often associated with the National Guard) also want to ignore the last four words (shall not be infringed).

The politics of both sides...

 

[ChicagoBlue]

I appreciate that position and I do understand that there are people who legitimately have a need for a firearm, especially in rural area's, and that there are plenty of responsible gun owners.
Zero ownership wouldn't even have to be implemented, just very strict access and stringent control and 100% traceability, thereby severely limiting the possibility of any weapon ending up where it shouldn't.
Currently none of those measures have been implemented or only half-arsed and the likelihood of legal weapons ending up on the black market is just too big, especially when you consider the sheer amount of arms in circulation. That's the problem that should be addressed.

100% traceability is in place for the initial retail sale. Beyond that, it is each owners responsibility to have the info of the person to whom they sold the firearm. Some firearms are sold multiple times and that is where things start to get fuzzy. Shouldn't be that way, I agree.

 

[buckshot]

1) Love the name! ;-)
2) I agree.

It has nothing to do with guns, it was just a nickname when I played baseball. I grew up in a house w/ guns and hunted as a youngster but I hated it. It's probably been 15 years since I've shot one.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

Out of curiosity, what militia are you a member of and who regulates it?

Read Heller.

In the 2008 case District of Columbia v. Heller, the Supreme Court held that the "Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home."

Beyond that, I can't discuss.

 

[buckshot]

FYI

Second Amendment

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

In the 2008 case District of Columbia v. Heller, the Supreme Court held:

"Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home."

As you can see, the fourth word of the 2A (Militia) is virtually ignored by Heller, even though some people believe it is a key word. However, those same people who want it only to be associated with militia (often associated with the National Guard) also want to ignore the last four words (shall not be infringed).

The politics of both sides...

Some people actually think that it might not be the best idea to take something somebody said 200+ years ago as the gospel. Maybe a bunch of guys w/ muskets would have had a different opinion if they could have predicted the future of firearms.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

It has nothing to do with guns, it was just a nickname when I played baseball. I grew up in a house w/ guns and hunted as a youngster but I hated it. It's probably been 15 years since I've shot one.

I just thought it was funny given the discussion. No slight intended.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

Some people actually think that it might not be the best idea to take something somebody said 200+ years ago as the gospel. Maybe a bunch of guys w/ muskets would have had a different opinion if they could have predicted the future of firearms.

If you make me King for the day, there are quite a few things I would change!

 

[ChicagoBlue]

It also contradicts your assertion that his gun was either illegal or illegally modified.

These modifications are very unusual and I have never seen one in person or know of anyone who has one. They are rare. I'm trying to answer as many posts as possible, so I apologize if I have possibly said something that is not true in 100% of eventualities, as in this case. 99.9% of automatic weapons are illegal to own by 99.9% of people. The slide stock modification is a rarity and most automatic guns have been illegally altered.

I hope that clarifies my position sufficiently?

 

[ChicagoBlue]

Some people actually think that it might not be the best idea to take something somebody said 200+ years ago as the gospel. Maybe a bunch of guys w/ muskets would have had a different opinion if they could have predicted the future of firearms.

That's why Heller in 2008, is used...to blunt that "olde worlde" argument.

 

[bigquinn772]

Another update from police - they found 23 firearms in the hotel room and 19 at his home.

 

[Bill Walker]

Sincere condolences to our American cousins

 

[idahoblues]

The genie is out of the bottle in the US and there's no putting it back. In that sense, they're fucked.

It's a perfect illustration as to why our strict gun laws are necessary and, if anything, should be made even stricter.

you will always be a subject of the Crown, I will always be a citizen of the US. You will always live your life expecting somebody to protect you, I will protect myself whatever it takes

 

[Brightwell’s left peg]

you will always be a subject of the Crown, I will always be a citizen of the US. You will always live your life expecting somebody to protect you, I will protect myself whatever it takes

The fallacy though, is that what you use to 'protect' yourself, and the easy availability of it, statistically makes you less protected. I expect quite a few of the las Vegas dead shared the same view as you. Owning a gun didn't do them any favours.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

The fallacy though, is that what you use to 'protect' yourself, and the easy availability of it, statistically makes you less protected. I expect quite a few of the las Vegas dead shared the same view as you. Owning a gun didn't do them any favours.

One of the many who feel like it did save their life...

https://pjmedia.com/blog/carrying-a-gun-saved-my-life-meet-ryan-moore/1/

 

[idahoblues]

The fallacy though, is that what you use to 'protect' yourself, and the easy availability of it, statistically makes you less protected. I expect quite a few of the las Vegas dead shared the same view as you. Owning a gun didn't do them any favours.

An emotional day all round, many things have been said in the heat of a very upsetting day for humanity. I didn't mention the use of firearms to defend myself, my point was more a general awareness of my self and family, not a trust or reliance on an entity of government to do it. I don't trust in anyone other than myself to deal with my problems

 

[idahoblues]

 

[SWP's back]

It's bullshit.

Here's a thread on the bullshit being spread by 4chan that it was Isis and Antifa and the lazy journalists doing no fact checking.

Some incredibly sad people exist on this earth.

 

[SWP's back]

And out of those 273 "mass shootings" a total of 328 people have been killed. That's including the total of 58 (at this time) for the last Vegas one.

If you take out the Vegas one then out of 272 mass shootings there have been 276 deaths or around one death per shooting.

It's still horrendous but gives a perspective as to why law makers and gun lobbyists in the states don't look at it as big a problem as someone who just reads the headline figure of 273 might.

That’s mass shootings yes. But 30,000 are killed by guns every year.