Pep's Attacking Strategy - City versus B/M versus Barca

CityInWashingtonState

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Manchester City is my team - until I fucking die.
I'm interested in hearing from long time followers of Pep, how his tactics have adjusted across the teams he has managed.

For sake of this thread, let's start with Barca.

Moderators - this thread is not "Pep's performance" - I'm not interested in performance - I'm interested current strategy, versus strategy employed at B/M and Barca.
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As a follower of City with general interest in world football - meaning I've not spent nearly enough time to consider myself expert or anywhere near so - here's my take....

As compared to previous sides (Barca, B/M) - it strikes me that Pep has incorporated something new in the way that City attacks. Namely, explosive pace at sideline positions.

Sane at AM on the left (and were he fit) Mendy at LB; on the right we have Sterling and Walker.

Our attack (though we've abundant talent in the mid as well) exploits pace on the sides (wingers and backs) to get behind opposition defenders and then make telling passes across opponent's back lines. We also threaten to score from purely central attacks but for me this doesn't seem to be our biggest threat.

This, for me, seems far different than the primary attack threats opposed by Bayern or Barca.
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We also have significant threats due to height on set pieces - Otters/Kompany/Stones adds a height-advantage, set piece attack which certainly Barca did not have to this extent, and, I'm guessing (didn't follow Bayern that much) that Bayern didn't have to the same extent that we have.
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Barca - built on Messi - attack through the middle primarily - very weak on headed goal threat.

B/M - built on Robery, but Lewandowski provides threat through the middle - not a short squad per-se, so headed goals on set pieces also a threat.
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City - built on pace from the sides. Excellent players throughout of course, but against set defenses our biggest threat seems to be crosses from the side.

On set pieces we're extremely good too - Otters/Stones/Kompany are all very good on offense and can offer a much bigger overall aerial threat than Barca and I'm guessing BM (Lewandoski and maybe Boatang).
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Anyhow, the above is my simplistic, not-particularly-well-articulated take on how City's attack differs from that of Pep's sides under Barca/BM.

Of course Pep's ball retention/high press/position-oriented (get into the right position on offense, no three in a line (triangles per se), which leads to the right position on turn over - move to the ball if your closest but cut off passes otherwise) - is the same throughout.

Do you agree? Have I missed anything?
 
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Not sure that dividing teams by types of goal threats (headers or not) is enough to distinguish tactics/strategies. As for speed on wings, almost all his teams had it - Henry-Messi, Villa-Pedro, Robben-Ribery, Coman-Costa etc. I think we have to take into account all aspects of teamplay to see what's happening. And it's impossible to separate attacking from defending as both phases are heavily interrelated.

Here's my attempt to separate those teams:
1. Barca - extremely safe circulation of the ball with great ability to pass through 8/10 areas thanks to players' capabilities in tight spaces. Almost zero counters (famous '15-passes' rule). Only short patient passes that help to maintain structure and make pressing easier ("you don't need to run more than 10m if you don't pass long").
The attacking play wasn't entirely designed by Guardiola, it was already present when he arrived. His main impact in 1st year was adding systematic pressing within the frame of emerging 'tiki-taka' style that brought Spain 2008 Euros.
There were some away games with counterattacking setup (for ex. Madrid 09-10, Espanyol 10-11), still the team tended to pass through midfield in extremely safe way.

I don't see many teams of that ilk nowadays. The only one that stands close to that Barca, albeit with worse performers and more 'riskier' vertical play, is IMO Sarri's Napoli. Perhaps they're even better in terms of build-up, but lack superstar forwards, defenders and squad depth to convert it into better results.
Shakhtar is another interesting example.
Guess Bosz is trying to create something like this at BvB, but isn't doing well so far.

2. Bayern had several different teams under Pep, the only one that seemed more or less 'complete' was 15-16 BM. The basic approach was quite unorthodox:
- get the ball to defenders, midfielders (usually Alonso)
- quickly move it to one of the wingers, creating 1-on-1 (the most common way is Alonso's long diagonal pass)
- winger dribbles and makes a cross
- the whole team attacks the cross and rebound, then plays quick combination in the final third to get to a shooting position.
- if not successfull, get the ball back by collective pressing, rinse and repeat.
That team struggled to create through the middle (Thiago was in crisis, Kroos sold, and the board bought Vidal, who is not really suited for quick passing football), the focus was on wingplay.

What's interesting, Madrid won 2CLs using the same approach. Wouldn't be surprised if Zidane got the idea from Pep himself in 2015 during coaching courses. They also use wingplay and don't attack through the middle systematically. The main weapon is crosses and teams' ability to convert it into goals. They also safely circulate the ball in the deep and are able to defend by possession.

If you sit deep against such team, they score from numerous high/low crosses.
If you decide to press their main deep circulators of the ball (Kroos-Modric, fullbacks), remember that they're very press-resistant, so it's requires a lot of energy. Besides, when you get the ball, you need to use it very patiently and rarely lose. Probably Madrid's main vulnerability is their play without the ball, their pressing is not flawless. Pep's teams don't have such deficiency.

3.City. From what I've seen this season, it's very close to the second approach. City are good in possession in deep areas, not so good in higher zones and prefer to use fast transitions when attack. Use low crosses a lot. The epitome of the style is de Bruyne - not so press-resistant player that is deadly in transitional situations. The teamplay looks like a mix of possession and transitional football, the ability to penetrate through middle will be added gradually (that's where 'needle players' like Bernardo Silva are indispensable).

Another analogy could be Enrique's Barca, though City press better, have less skilled but more disciplined forwards.
 
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from my point of view..... Aggression is the thing he has brought to the team, belief in ourselves.

It was interesting listening to his press conf about how the game against Napoli and going toe to toe and attacking principle at all costs helps the team deal with those situations in future. It was a group game, we could have played it safe for the point but the aggression in our team to bring it back twice and fight fight fight lends itself for when we are in the knock out stages, we are better prepared, same as after losing a game.... I am waiting for us to lose one, I dont want us to, but when we do it will be (another) test of how resilient we are, how we fight back. We need to prove that yet, only then will I be happy we are absolute contenders.

I think he has the above mentality in all his teams
 
2 nd balls? but we are full of midgets. Apparently.

Picking up Second balls isnt to do with height, it's about positioning and spacing.

Pep talked about this quite a lot in press conferences followong the leicester and Everton defeats last January, he made the team narrower and worked for a week on making the spaces between our players smaller.
 
Picking up Second balls isnt to do with height, it's about positioning and spacing.

Pep talked about this quite a lot in press conferences followong the leicester and Everton defeats last January, he made the team narrower and worked for a week on making the spaces between our players smaller.
:)
 
Fcbarca who posts on here is your best bet, he has a pep duvet and everyfink.
Speaking of, I asked a similar question to him in the Xavi + Iniesta vs Silva + De Bruyne thread


Hey @FCBarca what do you think the major differences are in how this City side is set up compared to Pep's Barcelona? Obviously the foundations are the same but I just believe that ultimately there's enough differences to say that each side has a separate identity. It's blatantly obvious where his Barca side were superior to this City one but I feel there are things this City team can do that his Barca or Bayern sides couldn't (as is the case with any good side). I can't put my finger on what it exactly is myself but for one I feel like this City side is quite a bit weaker in retaining possession than his previous teams but maybe a little better at playing directly and at high speed. I imagine myself it comes down to a combination of personnel available, using De Bruyne as the main man and adapting to the PL but seeing as you know a lot about Pep's style you might know better than that/me.

Thanks.

Sure but tbh it's never a comparison you can really make IMHO.

Apart from the obvious in Messi, peak Pep/Barca enjoyed superlative players at just about every position on the park. Xavi, Iniesta & Busquets - an argument can certainly be made that there has never been a midfield trio like them. Dani Alves when he came from Sevilla in 2008 was at that time perhaps the most devastating defender the game has seen in our generation. Many probably don't recall what a monster player he was at Sevilla but I still have yet to come across a defender anywhere that inspired more fear in the opposition and not simply for defending but in attack. He shut down his side of the pitch rendering most attacking players (Including when he faced Thierry Henry) moot while simultaneously posing an incredible attacking threat. When he came to Barcelona under Pep, the connection he established with Messi - it was nothing I have seen before or since. Like Xavi & Iniesta, it was virtually innate. Throw in Samuel Eto'O & Thierry Henry in attack and you have a formidable & clinical attacking trident. That just leaves Valdes, Abidal, Puyol & Pique which formed a defensive partnership that thwarted the opposition. Has there ever been an XI like that, throw in bench players like Pedro, Jeffren, Seydou Keita, Yaya, Sylvinho (Who started the CL Final) & Rafa - well, they were deep, skilled & played Pep's brand of football almost extinctively which you had to expect considering how many came through the cantera playing this way from youth.

Anyway, I think you can never really compare these sort of systems & players although you are spot on that Pep tries to make the best use of the personnel at his disposal. If it doesn't work as hoped/intended, he'll adapt and then do it again. As you've already gathered, Pep isn't married to positions but rather getting the collective XI to play a bit like a hydra The similarity clearly lies in the way they play and we saw that with peak Bayern under Pep too. And I agree that City has a different identity but still hasn't reached peak football. For me, the question really is will they get there as I am sure they will get better still - absolutely certain of that. But the step up to greatness takes a certain sort of mentality you see among champion sides. I know a few of the players have it but as a collective will they show that in the biggest matches and when the chips are down? We will have to see which is why I look for that mental edge when I watch City now - it's still not quite there yet but you can see it's growing

I agree too that there is a vertical aspect to their game that appears different that Barcelona's but that too is down to the difference in how the midfielders operate. Will KDB move higher up the pitch once a different profile DM is brought in? Or is KDB better suited to the role he currently enjoys dropping deeper? I'm not sure but knowing Pep, like with how he used Messi - he will want to keep his key players closer to goal than deeper. So, I suspect he envisions moving KDB higher up the pitch where he can do the most damage. I think Pep isn't quite done tinkering with the look of this team. The good is that you are seeing more of the key players asserting themselves on the game where you see few weak links. Right now, the weakest link would be Delph but that isn't to say that he has been poor - quite the opposite. It's just that Mendy would be providing more going forward and taking greater advantage of Leroy.

Then there is the question of Alexis Sanchez - will they really go after him in the winter market? Will they risk having to reinvent themselves by having to integrate and take full advantage of his skill set if they are rolling in December?
 

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