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VAR (PL introduction 2019)
- Thread starter greasedupdeafguy
- Start date
Blueknows
Well-Known Member
The only way to clear this up is to show a replay on the big screenNo, i'm saying officials get it wrong & are either incompetent, biased or corrupt or a mixture of all 3, & this gives them the power to decide the outcome of football games, however they choose.
Surely that point must be clear by now, I've been making it since the thread opened & indeed before the thread existed ?
No he didn't. You are not looking at your own v.a.r. correctly, which is exactly what i am talking about, people not interpreting the evidence correctly.
Look at it again, from the moment the ball is kicked. Barry is stood straight up, in front of the keeper, doing nothing wrong. He is then fouled & then leans back when he is pushed again.
Nobody has bothered to watch it properly.
Yes he did. I had the game recorded on my sky box and have the full incident and have just rewatched it. Barry was backing in and pushing a Mingulet first
Neville Kneville
Well-Known Member
again that's not a VAR issue, you are back on bent refs
You do get my point surely, that it's the same incompetent, biased, bent refs, who operate the v.a.r ?
And that blaming v.a.r itself would be like blaming the grass they play on ?
This system, will be operated by the same people, who watched Lukaku kick that bloke in the balls, for a week & decided it was ok.
They will choose which incidents to review.
Why are they suddenly going to be less dodgy doing that, than they are doing everyting else ?
Neville Kneville
Well-Known Member
Yes he did. I had the game recorded on my sky box and have the full incident and have just rewatched it. Barry was backing in and pushing a Mingulet first
No he wasn't you are clearly watching only the last part & not the moment the ball is kicked.
If you saw a bloke swerving a Ford Anglia all over the road mowing down pedestrians, & crashing into things would you give him a Ferrari ?
Can I have some of what your smoking.... :)
Neville Kneville
Well-Known Member
Barry did it first... I've just watched it
You can't have, you must be watching the part after the bit I am talking about.
Incidentally, in the part you are accusing barry of pushing Mignolet, which player has his hands on which ?
You can't have, you must be watching the part after the bit I am talking about.
Incidentally, in the part you are accusing barry of pushing Mignolet, which player has his hands on which ?
Both have, Barry goes to obstruct the keeper and there both at it...
Neville Kneville
Well-Known Member
The only way to clear this up is to show a replay on the big screen
They do that in Rugby, then it becomes apparent, like I'm talking about re Barry, that there is another incident which also needs reviewing & as they spot that, there is often a 3rd one.
So it takes forever.
Neville Kneville
Well-Known Member
Both have, Barry goes to obstruct the keeper and there both at it...
But Barry is facing away from the keeper, so how does he have his hands on him ?
But Barry is facing away from the keeper, so how does he have his hands on him ?
He goes to obstruct the keeper standing in front of him and reaches around. He only let's go when the balls in the net
Pushing has to be careless, reckless or excessively forceful to be a foul. That's why Mignolet's not going to get called for that one. Holding or impeding with contact, on the other hand, do not have to be careless, reckless or excessively forceful to be offences, which is why they can award a penalty for the slight tug on Salah. Or, if they wanted, a free kick against Barry for impeding the keeper if he makes contact.
It's all there in black and white in the laws. In the opinion of the referee. Football's major weakness as a game is its outdated laws and its reliance on the referee's interpretation of events. VAR with other changes is the way forward but it has to be implemented intelligently, even with cunning. And the response to it has be detached and intelligent but at the moment all we get from the media are the predictable kneejerk reactions designed to wind people up.
It's all there in black and white in the laws. In the opinion of the referee. Football's major weakness as a game is its outdated laws and its reliance on the referee's interpretation of events. VAR with other changes is the way forward but it has to be implemented intelligently, even with cunning. And the response to it has be detached and intelligent but at the moment all we get from the media are the predictable kneejerk reactions designed to wind people up.
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Neville Kneville
Well-Known Member
He goes to obstruct the keeper standing in front of him and reaches around. He only let's go when the balls in the net
There you go mate. Before the bloke kicks the ball, as he lifts his leg, to kick it, (not the closeup, the distant shot, before the ball is kicked ) stop the picture.
You can clearly see, Barry stood up straight, where he is entitled to be & the keeper already leaning forward into him. The next thing that happens, is the keeper pushes Barry square in the back with both hands, knocking him forward. Penalty, but instead of diving like Salah did, Barry immediately steps back & leans backward & the keeper puts both his hands on Barry's back, pushing him again. It is then that the 'scuffle' starts, after the initial foul by Mignolet.
They showed a closer angle of the whole thing at one point during the game, but at other times only showed the close up of the 2nd phase. But the ref in the box, would have the whole thing, clear as day. If that had ben Salah & not Barry, he would be face down on the floor, appealing for a pen before the ball even arrived.
Neville Kneville
Well-Known Member
Pushing has to be careless, reckless or excessively forceful to be a foul. That's why Mignolet's not going to get called for that one. Holding or impeding with contact, on the other hand, do not have to be careless, reckless or excessively forceful to be offences, which is why they can award a penalty for the slight tug on Salah. Or, if they wanted, a free kick against Barry for impeding the keeper if he makes contact.
It's all there in black and white in the laws. In the opinion of the referee. Football's major weakness as a game is its outdated laws and its reliance on the referee's interpretation of events. VAR with other changes is the way forward but it has to be implemented intelligently, even with cunning. And the response to it has be detached and intelligent but at the moment all we get from the media are the predictable kneejerk reactions designed to wind people up.
It was a big, full on push, worse than the one Everton got a pen for. But as nobody cares, they are not showing closeups of it.
Neville Kneville
Well-Known Member
It was a big, full on push, worse than the one Everton got a pen for. But as nobody cares, they are not showing closeups of it.
Also
http://www.thefa.com/football-rules.../football-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct
Direct free kick
A direct free kick is awarded if a player commits any of the following offences against an opponent in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force:
- charges
- jumps at
- kicks or attempts to kick
- pushes
- strikes or attempts to strike (including head-butt)
- tackles or challenges
- trips or attempts to trip
- Careless is when a player shows a lack of attention or consideration when making a challenge or acts without precaution. No disciplinary sanction is needed
- Reckless is when a player acts with disregard to the danger to, or consequences for, an opponent and must be cautioned
- Using excessive force is when a player exceeds the necessary use of force and endangers the safety of an opponent and must be sent off
- handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within their penalty area)
- holds an opponent
- impedes an opponent with contact
- spits at an opponent
Impeding the progress of an opponent means moving into the opponent’s path to obstruct, block, slow down or force a change of direction when the ball is not within playing distance of either player.
All players have a right to their position on the field of play; being in the way of an opponent is not the same as moving into the way of an opponent.
Barry was already stood there, was pushed & then held.
Neville Kneville
Well-Known Member
http://hoofoot.com/?match=Liverpool_2_-_3_West_Brom_2018_01_27
5:33, as barry is pushed square in the back by Mignolet, & goes forward, his momentum, xposing clear daylight between them, note the Liverpool player at the near post, closer to the camera, who has both hands holding the arm of the West Brom attacker.
PENALTY.
5:33, as barry is pushed square in the back by Mignolet, & goes forward, his momentum, xposing clear daylight between them, note the Liverpool player at the near post, closer to the camera, who has both hands holding the arm of the West Brom attacker.
PENALTY.
That's the point I made. To be an offence, pushing has be done in a manner considered by the ref to be careless, reckless or with excessive force. So there's a grey area to exploit right away. One man's excessive is another's normal. I don't know if he was held but pushing can easily be dismissed by the refs as part of the game. Unless you pushed someone into another player or off the pitch. Holding is right away a foul. The laws don't qualify the type of holding, the duration or anything. So Salah can get his penalty for less contact than Mignolet instigated. But the strangeness of football's laws is all in the contradictory coda "If an offence involves contact it is penalised..........." That's after "attempts to kick", "attempts to strike", "attempts to trip". Which is it then? The laws are incomprehensible in places. Far too lengthy, too convoluted, too vague. But pushing just ain't a foul unless the ref considers it to be so. So some can get away with it and others can't. And it's all within the letter of the laws.
You do get my point surely, that it's the same incompetent, biased, bent refs, who operate the v.a.r ?
And that blaming v.a.r itself would be like blaming the grass they play on ?
This system, will be operated by the same people, who watched Lukaku kick that bloke in the balls, for a week & decided it was ok.
They will choose which incidents to review.
Why are they suddenly going to be less dodgy doing that, than they are doing everyting else ?
the use of it so far has proved the opposite, time will tell of course, but with the whole viewing public seeing what they can see they would be hard pressed to give a bent decision
i will concede the barry one is tight, have we had the official reason for it to be chalked off?
it looked to me he may of been in a offside position in the first instance before the push and shove
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mrtwiceaseason
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 9 Oct 2011
- Messages
- 7,854
Everyone saying decisions need to be on the big screens at the match to keep fans in the loop ,hows this going to play out at grounds that wont install them as they would loose seating revenue.ie swamp and klanfield ?