VAR (PL introduction 2019)

Easy solution for me, get the mic the refs speak on on a switch connected to the stadium speaker when a decision needs is flick the switch and the ground knows what's being said
 
Neville Kneville said:
No, i'm saying officials get it wrong & are either incompetent, biased or corrupt or a mixture of all 3, & this gives them the power to decide the outcome of football games, however they choose.

Surely that point must be clear by now, I've been making it since the thread opened & indeed before the thread existed ?
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100% with you on all you are saying. Especially what isnt reviewed and who makes the choices. The cameras and directors are Sky/BT. Notice in a Man United match then every throw in or foul against United is replayed and scrutised countless times. Cameras and directors are set up to do this. VAR officials (bent or not) are reliant on these streams (or so Mike Riley said). Was the Salah incident that much different to what happens at every corner? Has VAR picked anything up at a corner yet? Selection and coverage is in the hands of SKY and BT and a VAR official. We simply dont know what else the cameras might have missed or not referred.
I for one will miss celebrating any goal until it has been VAR checked.
Out of interest, are those so aggressively and at times abusively in favour of VAR regular match goers or armchair fans? Genuine question with no agenda ( i am a mix of both)
 
Colm mulvenna said:
Easy solution for me, get the mic the refs speak on on a switch connected to the stadium speaker when a decision needs is flick the switch and the ground knows what's being said
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There'll be a fair amount of 'dumps' made in boxers at the FArce if they have to follow that simple and necessary piece of VAR usage! The one thing that the FArce could never put out is the notion that as an organisation they embrace the notion of transparency. Fans are sold up the river, down the river, are walked down the garden path and are invited to have tea with the fairies - all in the name of 'good governance'!
 
Machiavelli said:
So what you’re saying is, you wanted a VAR intervention resulting in a penalty for a push on Barry?
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the law states on a push -

  • Careless is when a player shows a lack of attention or consideration when making a challenge or acts without precaution. No disciplinary sanction is needed
  • Reckless is when a player acts with disregard to the danger to, or consequences for, an opponent and must be cautioned
  • Using excessive force is when a player exceeds the necessary use of force and endangers the safety of an opponent and must be sent off
A direct free kick is awarded if a player commits any of the following offences:

the ref has to have deemed this as neither of the above or he has to give a penalty

i've looked at it a few times now, barry does lean in and the keeper pushes him away 50/50 in my book, and at the point of the header barry is offside and interfering so in my opinion the goal was ruled out correctly
 
How about a change to the offside law that says there has to be "clear air" for want of a better phrase between the defender and attacker. That way the game will probably get more goals and it makes it easier to officiate. At present a really well timed forward run can be offside by the smallest amount because the last defender is fortunate enough to have taken a slightly longer stride or didn't leave a trailing arm as he moved forward.

Hard hat on for the replies.
 
hampshireblue said:
How about a change to the offside law that says there has to be "clear air" for want of a better phrase between the defender and attacker. That way the game will probably get more goals and it makes it easier to officiate. At present a really well timed forward run can be offside by the smallest amount because the last defender is fortunate enough to have taken a slightly longer stride or didn't leave a trailing arm as he moved forward.

Hard hat on for the replies.
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No hard hat, I'm with you. For those really tight calls that VAR couldnt even clear up, give the benefit to the attacker. Thought that was the case anyway. It will only be the odd one, 99% of decisions would be easy to clear up, as has been shown already with the Kelechi/Barry/West Brom 3rd goal decisions over the weekend. The glaring error has been the Silva goal where VAR wasn't available. And some still don't want it? Bizarre....
 
caseball said:
Pushing has to be careless, reckless or excessively forceful to be a foul. That's why Mignolet's not going to get called for that one. Holding or impeding with contact, on the other hand, do not have to be careless, reckless or excessively forceful to be offences, which is why they can award a penalty for the slight tug on Salah. Or, if they wanted, a free kick against Barry for impeding the keeper if he makes contact.

It's all there in black and white in the laws. In the opinion of the referee. Football's major weakness as a game is its outdated laws and its reliance on the referee's interpretation of events. VAR with other changes is the way forward but it has to be implemented intelligently, even with cunning. And the response to it has be detached and intelligent but at the moment all we get from the media are the predictable kneejerk reactions designed to wind people up.
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Great post.
 
Hart of the Matter said:
100% with you on all you are saying. Especially what isnt reviewed and who makes the choices. The cameras and directors are Sky/BT. Notice in a Man United match then every throw in or foul against United is replayed and scrutised countless times. Cameras and directors are set up to do this. VAR officials (bent or not) are reliant on these streams (or so Mike Riley said). Was the Salah incident that much different to what happens at every corner? Has VAR picked anything up at a corner yet? Selection and coverage is in the hands of SKY and BT and a VAR official. We simply dont know what else the cameras might have missed or not referred.
I for one will miss celebrating any goal until it has been VAR checked.
Out of interest, are those so aggressively and at times abusively in favour of VAR regular match goers or armchair fans? Genuine question with no agenda ( i am a mix of both)
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There not going to review throw ins etc. It's for match changing incidents, which has been shown in the Kelechi/Barry/West Brom's 3rd goal incidents. All of which VAR corrected or confirmed as ok. The glaring error was the Bernardo goal, which didn't have VAR available. It's highlighted in a handful of matches, how the referee team can get so much wrong. Whether that's because of poor refs or something more sinister is up for debate.

No system is perfect but there's so many cameras at elite games these days most things are captured.

Can I ask how you felt when Bernardo scored on Sunday. Guess you cheered like me. Not gutted when it was incorrectly ruled out through the officials. Something VAR would have corrected?

I'm a south stand season ticket holder, don't go away as much these days as in my 40s, but earned my spurs in the 80s/90s.... god I miss Grimsby!!
 
tonea2003 said:
the use of it so far has proved the opposite, time will tell of course, but with the whole viewing public seeing what they can see they would be hard pressed to give a bent decision
i will concede the barry one is tight, have we had the official reason for it to be chalked off?
it looked to me he may of been in a offside position in the first instance before the push and shove
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Barry has been given offside impeding the keeper's view etc, which is no problem. The problem is, he was pushed squarely in the back and a Liverpool player was grappling a WBA player's arm, both pens both ignored.

It won't get any better.
 
Machiavelli said:
So what you’re saying is, you wanted a VAR intervention resulting in a penalty for a push on Barry?
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I'm saying they are fucking incompetent, so don't notice it (there is a more obvious WBA pen at the near post at the same time) & that it will be typical to.see clubs like Liverpool & Utd getting decisions in their favour when you can clearly see other stuff going on, which they ignore.

The agenda for that game, was Liverpool & their fans loudly appealing for decisions, & whether they would get them, not the officials looking at incidents to see which offences are committed by either side.

And I'll tell you what they will do, they will make it so that only the one incident at a time can be reviewed. So if they are reviewing a pen appeal by Lindegard & notice that Pogba hits someone with an axe in the background, they will be 'powerless' to act, because that isn't the decision which is being reviewed. The same way that they STILL can't change yellow cards to red, after years of clear injustice.

They are fucking wankers.
 
Neville Kneville said:
Barry has been given offside impeding the keeper's view etc, which is no problem. The problem is, he was pushed squarely in the back and a Liverpool player was grappling a WBA player's arm, both pens both ignored.

It won't get any better.
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you are ignoring the fact the barry makes a move towards the keeper and the other one is 50/50 i'd go as far to say evans is doing more than the liverpool player
 
mrtwiceaseason said:
Everyone saying decisions need to be on the big screens at the match to keep fans in the loop ,hows this going to play out at grounds that wont install them as they would loose seating revenue.ie swamp and klanfield ?
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I think a 10-point penalty would be perfectly reasonable.
 
Neville Kneville said:
Barry has been given offside impeding the keeper's view etc, which is no problem. The problem is, he was pushed squarely in the back and a Liverpool player was grappling a WBA player's arm, both pens both ignored.

It won't get any better.
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There both at it, was the correct call. Never enough in it for either Barry or Mingulet to be called for it. ... and it's already infinitely better as Kelechi/Barry incidents have shown. While not having it in the Bernardo instance, caused a good goal to be chalked off, along with the sane challenge which VAR would have corrected also. We do however need a bigger sample size, before we can draw any significant conclusions. Something your not prepared to do for some strange reason....
 
tonea2003 said:
you are ignoring the fact the barry makes a move towards the keeper and the other one is 50/50 i'd go as far to say evans is doing more than the liverpool player
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I'd be well pissed with Barry if I was a West Brom player. Cost them a goal his antics...
 
I think the FA Cup is a great context for trying out other things like timekeepers, 30 minute stopclocks counting down, 4 linesmen. 2 referees even. Personally, I wouldn't be bothered me if they couldn't use them all in every game. The basic laws remain the same, so what difference. Some games get played on dry days and some get played the day after in a downpour.
 
Bluearmy said:
There both at it, was the correct call. Never enough in it for either Barry or Mingulet to be called for it. ... and it's already infinitely better as Kelechi/Barry incidents have shown. While not having it in the Bernardo instance, caused a good goal to be chalked off, along with the sane challenge which VAR would have corrected also. We do however need a bigger sample size, before we can draw any significant conclusions. Something your not prepared to do for some strange reason....
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Which is exactly the excuse they would make, in order to make their job easier.

And supposedly the Liverpool player holding the WBA players arm at the near post is now legal as well then ? We just ignore that one ?

All this is fine if you are happy to see this happen to City & turn a blind eye to all these litlle fouls when Utd get them ignored & then get a pen for City doing the same thing 20 mins later.

I'm really not.
 
caseball said:
That's the point I made. To be an offence, pushing has be done in a manner considered by the ref to be careless, reckless or with excessive force. So there's a grey area to exploit right away. One man's excessive is another's normal. I don't know if he was held but pushing can easily be dismissed by the refs as part of the game. Unless you pushed someone into another player or off the pitch. Holding is right away a foul. The laws don't qualify the type of holding, the duration or anything. So Salah can get his penalty for less contact than Mignolet instigated. But the strangeness of football's laws is all in the contradictory coda "If an offence involves contact it is penalised..........." That's after "attempts to kick", "attempts to strike", "attempts to trip". Which is it then? The laws are incomprehensible in places. Far too lengthy, too convoluted, too vague. But pushing just ain't a foul unless the ref considers it to be so. So some can get away with it and others can't. And it's all within the letter of the laws.
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Which allows them to do what they like with v.a.r.

Notice at the closeup replay 5:30 onwards as you clearly see the keeper push Barry in the back, the WBA no 2, is clearly having his arm held by the Liverpool player, deliberately impeding him.

There is no question that is a foul.


http://hoofoot.com/?match=Liverpool_2_-_3_West_Brom_2018_01_27
 
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