Fred_Quimby
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Back on topic. 55 shot dead in self defence! How many Israeli killed and injured? Shameful. Backed by Mr Fart leader of the free world.
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Middle East Conflict | Netanyahu orders strikes on Gaza (p1161)
- Thread starter The blue phantom
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inbetween
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Back on topic. 55 shot dead in self defence! How many Israeli killed and injured? Shameful. Backed by Mr Fart leader of the free world.
Again, what has this got to do with Trump? Thousands have been killed over decades over this issue, Trump has been in office for just over a year and a bit of that. Surely you should levy the same criticsm at Obama, Bush, Clinton etc given they also happily backed it?
As I said on the Trump thread, if this had been a peaceful protest you could be very critical of Israel for indiscriminate murder. The fact is however that this was not a peaceful protest and the people who have been killed were killed attempting to attack Israel and/or get into their borders.
Put quite simply, if someone was running around in London stabbing people you would expect the police to shoot them. If someone runs into Israel however with the probable intention to kill Israeli's and the Israeli's shoot them it is shameful?
A baby has also been killed in this, for what means do you think there is to bring a baby to a violent demonstration?? Hamas are well known for their use of human shields and perhaps they got what they wanted...
Prestwich_Blue
Well-Known Member
Both sides are getting what they want. Netanyahu wants to be seen as strong on security (and it's an issue that no Israeli PM, however well-intentioned he or she might be can afford to be seen as soft on) and Hamas sacrifices people to get the publicity it needs. Both sides are as bad as each other.Again, what has this got to do with Trump? Thousands have been killed over decades over this issue, Trump has been in office for just over a year and a bit of that. Surely you should levy the same criticsm at Obama, Bush, Clinton etc given they also happily backed it?
As I said on the Trump thread, if this had been a peaceful protest you could be very critical of Israel for indiscriminate murder. The fact is however that this was not a peaceful protest and the people who have been killed were killed attempting to attack Israel and/or get into their borders.
Put quite simply, if someone was running around in London stabbing people you would expect the police to shoot them. If someone runs into Israel however with the probable intention to kill Israeli's and the Israeli's shoot them it is shameful?
A baby has also been killed in this, for what means do you think there is to bring a baby to a violent demonstration?? Hamas are well known for their use of human shields and perhaps they got what they wanted...
PannickAtTheDisco
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Both sides are getting what they want. Netanyahu wants to be seen as strong on security (and it's an issue that no Israeli PM, however well-intentioned he or she might be can afford to be seen as soft on) and Hamas sacrifices people to get the publicity it needs. Both sides are as bad as each other.
well they aren't, because one side has just killed 55 people.
west didsblue
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And the other side has encouraged its own civilian population to martyr themselves by attcking a border fence in the knowledge that the defenders weren't just going to sit there and watch.well they aren't, because one side has just killed 55 people.
The blue phantom
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And the other side has encouraged its own civilian population to martyr themselves by attcking a border fence in the knowledge that the defenders weren't just going to sit there and watch.
The problem is the force being used. It truly is shocking and being condemned throughout the world. But Netanyahu knows he simply cannot be touched. He could massacre another 100, 200, 1000, 5000 and he will not be held accountable for it. He has the might of America covering his arse.
The Palistinians are on their own.
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inbetween
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well they aren't, because one side has just killed 55 people.
So what do you expect the Israeli's to do, just let people in to go on and potentially murder Israeli's or even the soldiers themselves?
If I go walking in a minefield I know full well that there is a good chance that I will step on a mine.
The blue phantom
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So what do you expect the Israeli's to do, just let people in to go on and potentially murder Israeli's or even the soldiers themselves?
If I go walking in a minefield I know full well that there is a good chance that I will step on a mine.
So are you in favour of these snipers firing live rounds at unarmed protesters?
A simple yes or no will do.
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inbetween
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So are you in favour of these snipers firing live rounds at unarmed protesters?
A simple yes or no will do.
No of course not.
But what about protesters attempting to break through the border or protesters carrying bombs and throwing molotovs?
cucumberman
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So many people on their ivory towers here putting blame on the Palestinians who protest.
Put yourselves in their shoes, granted there are some pockets of Palestinians who are pro Hamas, but there are countless university students, professionals, professors who also took part in the the March who has not an iota of care for Hamas. I am yet to hear news of my academic colleagues and their fate. These are not impressionable minds who want to cash in on the incentives of money, but people who have been oppressed for the very large part of 10 years whose reason to play with death in protest is more driven by the hope of wanting us, the international community, to look at their plight and to never forget about them. Yet here we are debating about how it serves them right to protest in front of a double, sometimes triple fenced 100m zone.
Hamas didn't incentivise this protest, the martyr fund has alway been there for decades and not just from Hamas. There is somewhat an uninformed understanding here and in the media of what martyrdom is in the Arab culture. I am not Arab but even I know that Shaheed (or martyrdom as what the media has conveniently yet mistakenly translate it to) includes death in peaceful protest. Even a child who is on his way to fetch water who gets shot for no reason is a shaheed. Death by being trampled under a falling wall? Shaheed. Death by a stomach disease? Shaheed. These are martyred deaths as well, so it comes to no surprise that any death from protesting is also described a Shaheed. If anything, these financial support reflect how death near the borders is a common occurrence so much so that Shaheed has become a cause of death.
Many do not give Palestinians credit of having the ability to think for themselves. A majority of these protestors did not line the borders because they want a bit of that martyr money. Let's not kid ourselves. They are there in a show of number to remind us that they are being wronged, and they are willing to put their lives in danger to show the world how easy the IDF pulls the trigger on anyone including children. The videos have shown these, the last one shared very sickening when one soldier suggested shooting a child for no apparent reason but the shooter this time around opted for an adult head to plant a bullet into instead. Here we are questioning the restraint of the Palestinians in being too close to the border, even bringing the analogy of minefields, when people like Tom Hurndall put himself in harm's way to save children who were being shot at without any provocation at all and himself tragically becoming a victim of psychopaths who see the little value of human life beyond the fence. Aguero93:20 is spot on when saying that protest is the only approach they have now because not protesting will shape a far worse predicament for the Palestinians.
My friends on the Israeli side are sick of this whataboutery themselves. They can't wait to leave and lead normal lives abroad detached from this insistence to claim land that they don't need, more so in the expense of human lives taken by those who want to feel how it feels to be the man holding the gun.
Put yourselves in their shoes, granted there are some pockets of Palestinians who are pro Hamas, but there are countless university students, professionals, professors who also took part in the the March who has not an iota of care for Hamas. I am yet to hear news of my academic colleagues and their fate. These are not impressionable minds who want to cash in on the incentives of money, but people who have been oppressed for the very large part of 10 years whose reason to play with death in protest is more driven by the hope of wanting us, the international community, to look at their plight and to never forget about them. Yet here we are debating about how it serves them right to protest in front of a double, sometimes triple fenced 100m zone.
Hamas didn't incentivise this protest, the martyr fund has alway been there for decades and not just from Hamas. There is somewhat an uninformed understanding here and in the media of what martyrdom is in the Arab culture. I am not Arab but even I know that Shaheed (or martyrdom as what the media has conveniently yet mistakenly translate it to) includes death in peaceful protest. Even a child who is on his way to fetch water who gets shot for no reason is a shaheed. Death by being trampled under a falling wall? Shaheed. Death by a stomach disease? Shaheed. These are martyred deaths as well, so it comes to no surprise that any death from protesting is also described a Shaheed. If anything, these financial support reflect how death near the borders is a common occurrence so much so that Shaheed has become a cause of death.
Many do not give Palestinians credit of having the ability to think for themselves. A majority of these protestors did not line the borders because they want a bit of that martyr money. Let's not kid ourselves. They are there in a show of number to remind us that they are being wronged, and they are willing to put their lives in danger to show the world how easy the IDF pulls the trigger on anyone including children. The videos have shown these, the last one shared very sickening when one soldier suggested shooting a child for no apparent reason but the shooter this time around opted for an adult head to plant a bullet into instead. Here we are questioning the restraint of the Palestinians in being too close to the border, even bringing the analogy of minefields, when people like Tom Hurndall put himself in harm's way to save children who were being shot at without any provocation at all and himself tragically becoming a victim of psychopaths who see the little value of human life beyond the fence. Aguero93:20 is spot on when saying that protest is the only approach they have now because not protesting will shape a far worse predicament for the Palestinians.
My friends on the Israeli side are sick of this whataboutery themselves. They can't wait to leave and lead normal lives abroad detached from this insistence to claim land that they don't need, more so in the expense of human lives taken by those who want to feel how it feels to be the man holding the gun.
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The blue phantom
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Fantastic post mate.
Barcon
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Just showing on the news that they are going back again today. Are they hoping that they won't be shot at today?
The blue phantom
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Just showing on the news that they are going back again today. Are they hoping that they won't be shot at today?
What else have they got to do in their miserable fuckin existence?
Shit on the bottom of someones shoe is valued more than a Palistinians life in the eyes of those oppressing them.
Some heads of states should hang their heads in fuckin shame at whats going on over there.
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cucumberman
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Just showing on the news that they are going back again today. Are they hoping that they won't be shot at today?
Not only are they hoping they won't be shot today, the international community hopes this as well. Protest is a powerful tool especially for those who have exhausted all resources to help themselves.
Deterrent does not require live ammunition.
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What else have they got to do in their miserable fuckin existence?
Shit on the bottom of someones shoe is valued more than a Palistinians life in the eyes of those oppressing them.
Some heads of states should hang their heads in fuckin shame at whats going on over there.
Israel has supported a two state solution, it doesn't support a two state solution that involves the dissolution of Israel and nor does the international community.
I am guessing you support us just giving the IRA Northern Ireland, the Falklands Argentina, Gibraltar to Spain?
Quite the opposite. They are hoping that they die on a big stage in the hope the international community takes notice. Not a great option but it highlights how shit life is there that that's seen as the better option than just letting the Israelis carry on treating them the way they doJust showing on the news that they are going back again today. Are they hoping that they won't be shot at today?
Sir peace frog
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Could they not of used water cannons
Don't think that would kill anyone, so noCould they not of used water cannons
Seriously? Nick the Palestinians' drinking water, then shoot it at them? They'd come with buckets.Could they not of used water cannons
Magicpole
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Israel has supported a two state solution, it doesn't support a two state solution that involves the dissolution of Israel and nor does the international community.
I am guessing you support us just giving the IRA Northern Ireland, the Falklands Argentina, Gibraltar to Spain?
So are you saying because we have grabbed land that isn’t a part of our island, we shouldn’t bother what Israel does?
That if the indigenous peoples want their country that was taken back are the cunts, rather than the people who took it and use force to keep it?
That seems a bit arse from elbow. Imperialism and land grabbing isn’t looked on as a good thing. How can we criticise people when our own wartime leader, Churchill, pledged that we would fight them everywhere forever. And we agreed we would and that would be the right thing to do. Yet when other people’s feel the same about their land you have a problem with that?
That doesn’t add up. It’s ok for us, but if you do it you’re wrong?
Why?