Jorginho

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ak93city said:
Moreover, Jorginho get's a full summer to train, Dinho doesn't with WC + Holiday. Guess who'll be starting the season for us.
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this is a really good point, depending on how far they go in the WC some players won't even be back before the start of the season or will they?
 
Has he got a buyout clause which we’re prepared to meet?

Other than that I wouldn’t deal with or trust any Italian club again as far as I could throw ‘em
 
Andrew___K said:
You're wrong, Jorginho would be a huge upgrade on Dinho, leading to a serious improvement of build-up play. You don't need a midfield specialist in winning the ball if you rarely lose it. Collective pressing replaces individual defensive qualities in such system.
The effect of improved build-up and ball-retention will be more significant than the drawbacks of having a less energetic player at the base of midfield. It's all about balance.

But we've discussed it numerous times, and you're still insisting that Dinho is almost ideal for City. He just isn't, his decision-making, passing and press-resistance leave a lot to be desired (for this particular system).
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He is better at playing out of tight situations than Fernandinho.

And he WILL lose the ball. And he won't be as good at getting it back. And he will.be a weakness at set pieces rather than a strength.

But it's swings and roundabouts
 
mccity said:
This is without a doubt wrong. You made a similar point about Mangala and Stones last summer if I recall so I wonder if this is a topic you're well versed in. I'm confident anyone who is would back me up here.
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Stones has given the ball away and cost us more goals & situations than anyone else in the back 4.

Which is exactly what I'm talking about.

These guys lose the ball. It's bullshit that they don't. Then, the important bit is to stop that becoming a goal.
 
Neville Kneville said:
Stones has given the ball away and cost us more goals & situations than anyone else in the back 4.

Which is exactly what I'm talking about.

These guys lose the ball. It's bullshit that they don't. Then, the important bit is to stop that becoming a goal.
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Do you still genuinely believe there is no major difference in Stones's and Mangala's passing ability?
 
mccity said:
Do you still genuinely believe there is no major difference in Stones's and Mangala's passing ability?
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I never did.

I just would like a cb to be a great defender & if he was, I would try to accomodate him in the squad. Unfortunately Mangala was defensively shite when given a chance.

Stones had a few months as a great defender who was solid on the ball. Before and after that he was average defender who was more dangerous to us, than the opposition, when in possession.

Hopefully he will come back.

Jorginho imo will be a big asset & will also lose the ball sometimes in dangerous positions.

It's what happens when you play this way. The key is to then defend it better when it inevitably happens.
 
Did anyone else watch him last night against Saudi Arabia? His passing and ball control was great, but he`s not very good defensively. He might be a better fit than Fernandinho to our system, but he`s nowhere near as good defensively as Dinho, and rarely wins headers too. Will be interesting to see how he does here, but for me his defending abilities could be a problem
 
Update from his agent

Jorginho agent gives update on future as City and Chelsea circle
Manchester City remain in pole position for Jorginho despite negotiations ‘taking their time.’

The 26-year-old Brazilian born player is said to be wanted by Maurizio Sarri - especially if he takes over as Chelsea boss.

And now his agent Joao Santos has given a update.

“I don’t know if the negotiations between Napoli and City for Jorginho have moved forward,” he told Calcio Napoli. “I’m not a part of that, so you’ll have to ask Napoli.

“Chelsea are an important and interesting club, like Barcelona and Real Madrid, but they’ve never contacted me.

“I’ll be in Italy this week. In the transfer market things can mature in 15 hours or in 15 days.”
 
Neville Kneville said:
I never did.

I just would like a cb to be a great defender & if he was, I would try to accomodate him in the squad. Unfortunately Mangala was defensively shite when given a chance.

Stones had a few months as a great defender who was solid on the ball. Before and after that he was average defender who was more dangerous to us, than the opposition, when in possession.

Hopefully he will come back.

Jorginho imo will be a big asset & will also lose the ball sometimes in dangerous positions.

It's what happens when you play this way. The key is to then defend it better when it inevitably happens.
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Finally a honest post on Stones defending ability.
 


Very, very worrying. Can't begin to imagine the holes in defense he'll be leaving.

Squeaky bum time, except for 90 minutes.
 
Jorginho is nothing defensively compared to dihno he’s slow and will struggle with our pressing game. Premier league is a lot quicker that the Italian game so makes him look even better playing over there. Don’t get me wrong his passing abilty is great but apart from that reminds me a bit of gundogen slow but clever and just won’t be good enough for what we need or are looking for. Defo would of preferred Fabinho
 
ak93city said:
Top post on highlighting Jorginho's qualities and how it suits our system.

Unai Emery mentioned in a recent interview that both Alonso and Busquets lack pace but when a team keeps 70% of the ball you gain much much more with a superior ball playing DLP/DM than you gain with a superior destroyer who can cover a lot of the pitch and win balls. And Emery is pretty much Pep-like in his way of thinking about the game and regularly chats with Pep regarding football as evidenced by his recent interview with Marti Perarnau (which I highly recommend everyone to read as its excellent). Give up the idea that Dinho is the best for us when we'll have the option of Jorginho in the team.

It's a trade-off, like it or not. There is no such player who will do everything a Pep DM/DLP does AND do what Dinho does combined. In our team where we'll keep the ball 70-80% of the time, a superior ball playing player than Dinho will have a much larger impact overall and have less to lose.

Just because Jorginho is better suited doesn't automatically mean that Dinho is shit and useless because I sense Dinho diehard fans, in particular, have a tendency to feel this way. If for some reason you feel Dinho is great at dictating play, do consider why KDB was dropped deep since November/December.
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There's another important side of it. Replacing Dinho with Jorginho doesn't mean City are improving attacking play whilst sacrificing the defensive side of it. Would be a mistake to think this way.

A Guardiola team defends from the front in short pressing bursts. It can afford only x amount of pressing spurts to make it effective, not 1.5x or 2x, as the team's energy is limited. It can afford to lose the ball only fixed amount of times. Lose the ball less, and you can spend more energy in every pressing movement in average. So, improving the side's press-resistance improves the ability to press aggressively and defend collectively.

Hazard after City game:
"I wouldn't have got a touch even if we played for three hours"
"If you have the ball, you immediately have three, four men on your skin."

"Three, four men". Not Fernandinho, Jorginho or whoever. Lose the ball less, and you'll be able to apply more intensive collective press. The opponent won't have space to move into, won't have time to think. Jorginho's (potential) acquisition is basically a step in this direction.
 
Andrew___K said:
There's another important side of it. Replacing Dinho with Jorginho doesn't mean City are improving attacking play whilst sacrificing the defensive side of it. Would be a mistake to think this way.

A Guardiola team defends from the front in short pressing bursts. It can afford only x amount of pressing spurts to make it effective, not 1.5x or 2x, as the team's energy is limited. It can afford to lose the ball only fixed amount of times. Lose the ball less, and you can spend more energy in every pressing movement in average. So, improving the side's press-resistance improves the ability to press aggressively and defend collectively.

Hazard after City game:
"I wouldn't have got a touch even if we played for three hours"
"If you have the ball, you immediately have three, four men on your skin."

"Three, four men". Not Fernandinho, Jorginho or whoever. Lose the ball less, and you'll be able to apply more intensive press. The opponent won't have space to move into, won't have time to think. Jorginho's (potential) acquisition is basically a step in this direction.
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Yup fair comment again.
 
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