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“City Matters” fan committee
- Thread starter jrb
- Start date
Fame Monster
Well-Known Member
Last night we talked about ticket points and various ideas were exchanged. Some were a bit off-the-wall but some were very sensible and so we'll wait to see what the club decide to do. I don't know how quickly they will turn the minutes round but I'd expect to see the first draft early next week. Once we're happy then they'll go on the website for everyone to see.
The loyaty points system definitely needs to be reformed. It's the fans' equivalent of FFP, protecting the older fans at the expense of the younger generation hence why the average age at a lot of our away games is like 50. Hopefully change is on the horizon although I think that’s unlikely now with the way the club have tried to get every penny out of matchday fans more recently, and that includes the commercialisation of loyalty points.
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cleavers
Moderator
It doesn't just protect older fans though, I'm mid 50's, and 5 years ago I could do basically any away game I wanted, but I always missed some away games due to work, and my points have fallen away very quickly, as the less you can do, the less you can do, so that my son 28, now has more points than me (due mainly to the fact he was willing to stay platinum). It certainly needs a system that caters for all, but that's not going to be easy to implement, and one that prevents people just buying tickets with no intention of ever using them, and just passing them on to mates (who ironically don't get the points either, and fall further behind themselves).The loyaty points system definitely needs to be reformed. It's the fans equivalent of FFP, protecting the older fans at the expense of the younger generation hence why the average age at a lot of our away games is like 50. Hopefully change is on the horizon although I think that’s unlikely now with the way the club have tried to get every penny out of matchday fans more recently, and that includes the commercialisation of loyalty points.
Tim of the Oak
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 29 Dec 2012
- Messages
- 20,919
The loyaty points system definitely needs to be reformed. It's the fans' equivalent of FFP, protecting the older fans at the expense of the younger generation hence why the average age at a lot of our away games is like 50. Hopefully change is on the horizon although I think that’s unlikely now with the way the club have tried to get every penny out of matchday fans more recently, and that includes the commercialisation of loyalty points.
I would have auditions in Mary Ds and guarantee Away ticket priority for 500 fans who sang our songs Loud and Proud!
Fame Monster
Well-Known Member
It doesn't just protect older fans though, I'm mid 50's, and 5 years ago I could do basically any away game I wanted, but I always missed some away games due to work, and my points have fallen away very quickly, as the less you can do, the less you can do, so that my son 28, now has more points than me (due mainly to the fact he was willing to stay platinum). It certainly needs a system that caters for all, but that's not going to be easy to implement, and one that prevents people just buying tickets with no intention of ever using them, and just passing them on to mates (who ironically don't get the points either, and fall further behind themselves).
A ballot would be good. If you've got 20000 points, you get 10 tickets in it: if you've got 2000 points, you get 1 ticket in it. Or something along them lines that doesn't exclude younger fans. That's something I've just thought up so I'm sure there's gonna be a few issues with it but I'm sure there are far less issues with that than the current system.
Prestwich_Blue
Well-Known Member
A ballot is one thing where my views as an individual and as a seasoncard holder representative are completely different.A ballot would be good. If you've got 20000 points, you get 10 tickets in it: if you've got 2000 points, you get 1 ticket in it. Or something along them lines that doesn't exclude younger fans. That's something I've just thought up so I'm sure there's gonna be a few issues with it but I'm sure there are far less issues with that than the current system.
As an individual, who used to go to the majority of (but not all) away games before 2012, I’d love a ballot as it might give me a 50% chance of getting away tickets. But in my role as a seasoncard rep I think about people like Sean Riley and the people I know on here that go to every, or pretty well every game, at home or abroad. That includes people like Bill & squirtyflower (not that there are many like them two!) who also go with their wives. I couldn’t support a system that might deny them a ticket if they wanted one or would stop them going if they couldn’t get two. It would keep me awake at nights.
squirtyflower
Well-Known Member
Thank you PBA ballot is one thing where my views as an individual and as a seasoncard holder representative are completely different.
As an individual, who used to go to the majority of (but not all) away games before 2012, I’d love a ballot as it might give me a 50% chance of getting away tickets. But in my role as a seasoncard rep I think about people like Sean Riley and the people I know on here that go to every, or pretty well every game, at home or abroad. That includes people like Bill & squirtyflower (not that there are many like them two!) who also go with their wives. I couldn’t support a system that might deny them a ticket if they wanted one or would stop them going if they couldn’t get two. It would keep me awake at nights.
As you know we’ve been going together for years and if there was a ballot its highly likely that one might get a ticket but not the other.
And that would happen to a number of people, couples, friends, parent/child etc
It’s not as straightforward as a single person buying a ticket, as City’s ticket website has proved this year lol
If something like that happened I’d just stop going as there’s little point in ‘seeing’ if you are successful when there are so many other things we could be doing.
I also think it means more games would go unsold.
Look at this year’s champions league fixtures, none have sold out.
Those who want to go buy cheap deals as soon as the fixture is announced. If you weren’t sure of that you wouldn’t bother going even if you were successful in the ballot.
And you’re right, there’s no one like me or Bill
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Fame Monster
Well-Known Member
A ballot is one thing where my views as an individual and as a seasoncard holder representative are completely different.
As an individual, who used to go to the majority of (but not all) away games before 2012, I’d love a ballot as it might give me a 50% chance of getting away tickets. But in my role as a seasoncard rep I think about people like Sean Riley and the people I know on here that go to every, or pretty well every game, at home or abroad. That includes people like Bill & squirtyflower (not that there are many like them two!) who also go with their wives. I couldn’t support a system that might deny them a ticket if they wanted one or would stop them going if they couldn’t get two. It would keep me awake at nights.
I’m sure other clubs that use a ballot-style system don’t preclude the winner of the ballot from buying a ticket for a plus-one so I’m sure there could be a similar allowance if one was used at City. Also, it only works now at City if the group who want to go to the game have a similar number of loyalty points.
But anyway, like you say, there’s not many people like Sean Riley among season-ticket holders so surely your loyalty should be to the majority of seasoncard holders and whatever is in their interest and not the minority? Even if you or the club don’t agree, surely it should research fans’ opinions on this (I don’t know if this has already been done) to see whether they think the present system serves and protects the few and makes it difficult/impossible for the younger fans to get the same opportunities that an older fan gets in terms of being able to attend priority games?
Prestwich_Blue
Well-Known Member
It’s not just Sean though. I can easily think of over 25 people I know, probably a lot more if I thought about it long enough, who would be at 28 out of 30 games as a minimum. Someone reckoned that there are maybe 1,000 people who are in that category. If Southampton beat Leicester, those people will be there at St Mary’s on a Tuesday or Wednesday night. They’ve got to have first crack at tickets. It’s only right. But I agree that we also have to make it easier for other groups to get tickets as well. I think that even the club agrees the system isn’t right as things stand which is why they wanted our ideas. What I expect (or at least hope) will happen is that they will propose a number of potential solutions that they’re happy they can implement and then we’ll open those up for fans’ opinions.I’m sure other clubs that use a ballot-style system don’t preclude the winner of the ballot from buying a ticket for a plus-one so I’m sure there could be a similar allowance if one was used at City. Also, it only works now at City if the group who want to go to the game have a similar number of loyalty points.
But anyway, like you say, there’s not many people like Sean Riley among season-ticket holders so surely your loyalty should be to the majority of seasoncard holders and whatever is in their interest and not the minority? Even if you or the club don’t agree, surely it should research fans’ opinions on this (I don’t know if this has already been done) to see whether they think the present system serves and protects the few and makes it difficult/impossible for the younger fans to get the same opportunities that an older fan gets in terms of being able to attend priority games?
Cheadle_hulmeBlue
Well-Known Member
- Joined
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- 19,423
It’s not just Sean though. I can easily think of over 25 people I know, probably a lot more if I thought about it long enough, who would be at 28 out of 30 games as a minimum. Someone reckoned that there are maybe 1,000 people who are in that category. If Southampton beat Leicester, those people will be there at St Mary’s on a Tuesday or Wednesday night. They’ve got to have first crack at tickets. It’s only right. But I agree that we also have to make it easier for other groups to get tickets as well. I think that even the club agrees the system isn’t right as things stand which is why they wanted our ideas. What I expect (or at least hope) will happen is that they will propose a number of potential solutions that they’re happy they can implement and then we’ll open those up for fans’ opinions.
I understand what you are saying in regards to loyal fans, but something has to change in my opinion. Unless you know someone it’s bascially impossible for younger fans to get tickets to away matches. The answer from some always seems to be ‘ Swansea away wasn’t full or that midweek away wasn’t full... when in reality most people can’t go to those games. Its very much becoming a closed shop imo and lots of younger fans won’t ever get that away game bug.
Maybe a certain number of tickets go to ballot ? Or maybe all the cup away games go to a ballot at first. It’s a difficult one
Fame Monster
Well-Known Member
It’s not just Sean though. I can easily think of over 25 people I know, probably a lot more if I thought about it long enough, who would be at 28 out of 30 games as a minimum. Someone reckoned that there are maybe 1,000 people who are in that category. If Southampton beat Leicester, those people will be there at St Mary’s on a Tuesday or Wednesday night. They’ve got to have first crack at tickets. It’s only right.
However many there are, I don't think their loyalty should be overlooked and it should have a bearing on their ability to get tickets and I think a majority of 40,000+ seasoncard holders would agree with that. However, at the same time, I think the majority of 40,000 seasoncard holders would also agree that they shouldn't get priority all of the time. That's why a ballot system weighted in their favour but which doesn't automatically grant them tickets would, I think, be a much fairer way of doing things, especially to younger fans.
squirtyflower
Well-Known Member
You might not want to answer but have you been to any away games this year?However many there are, I don't think their loyalty should be overlooked and it should have a bearing on their ability to get tickets and I think a majority of 40,000+ seasoncard holders would agree with that. However, at the same time, I think the majority of 40,000 seasoncard holders would also agree that they shouldn't get priority all of the time. That's why a ballot system weighted in their favour but which doesn't automatically grant them tickets would, I think, be a much fairer way of doing things, especially to younger fans.
Fame Monster
Well-Known Member
You might not want to answer but have you been to any away games this year?
Yes
squirtyflower
Well-Known Member
Cool, in that case you must have seen lots of young fans there, because I have
Fame Monster
Well-Known Member
Cool
Interestingly (or not), I had to buy my ticket second hand from someone who had more loyalty points than me who wasn't going himself.
I didn't see your edit but I'm guessing a lot of the younger fans who I saw would have got their tickets in a similar way to me or maybe via a supporters club.
squirtyflower
Well-Known Member
I get mine through a Supporters Club, much easierInterestingly (or not), I had to buy my ticket second hand from someone who had more loyalty points than me who wasn't going himself.
This ballot idea sounds a great idea whilst we are winning everything but it wasn't that long ago that we were shit and I don't mean York away. The loyal fans built up their points by doing the hard miles. IIRC Bristol City (away) last season didn't sell out but I bet most on 20,000 points went.
Perhaps it is just for the Dippers and Rags that we should have a ballot ?
Perhaps it is just for the Dippers and Rags that we should have a ballot ?
squirtyflower
Well-Known Member
So the hard core, of about a thousand or less (I think it’s more like 500), follow City up and down the country, and abroad, to the unglamorous games but have to go into a ballot for the big games with people who haven’t gone up to the unglamorous games?This ballot idea sounds a great idea whilst we are winning everything but it wasn't that long ago that we were shit and I don't mean York away. The loyal fans built up their points by doing the hard miles. IIRC Bristol City (away) last season didn't sell out but I bet most on 20,000 points went.
Perhaps it is just for the Dippers and Rags that we should have a ballot ?
Bluemeanster
Active Member
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- 6 Nov 2018
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- 29
The ballot for all can't be done.
There will be uproar from loyal fans who have gone home and away for years.
Also the club has sold loyalty points with platinum etc.. since we moved to the stadium.
If they scrap a scheme where they have sold points on the provisio it helps your points total for the purchase of tickets, surely they will be obliged to refund everyone who has paid £50 extra a season.
The way i think it should be done if there is a change is as follows: Have different pots of tickets for different sets of fans:
say we get 3000 away tickets it could be split something like this:
A, Existing Loyalty point members get 1200 tickets
B, Supporters club 700 tickets
C, Corporate and staff 500 tickets
D, Ballot (for members who have no loyalty points or cant purchase due to A,B,C being sold out) 600 tickets
Doing it like this, your'e looking after all sections of fans including those with existing points, supporters club and it gives those with no loyalty points the opportunity to purchase tickets.
The numbers may need to be based on a percentage rather than direct number due to changing away ticket allocations.
What you think PB?
There will be uproar from loyal fans who have gone home and away for years.
Also the club has sold loyalty points with platinum etc.. since we moved to the stadium.
If they scrap a scheme where they have sold points on the provisio it helps your points total for the purchase of tickets, surely they will be obliged to refund everyone who has paid £50 extra a season.
The way i think it should be done if there is a change is as follows: Have different pots of tickets for different sets of fans:
say we get 3000 away tickets it could be split something like this:
A, Existing Loyalty point members get 1200 tickets
B, Supporters club 700 tickets
C, Corporate and staff 500 tickets
D, Ballot (for members who have no loyalty points or cant purchase due to A,B,C being sold out) 600 tickets
Doing it like this, your'e looking after all sections of fans including those with existing points, supporters club and it gives those with no loyalty points the opportunity to purchase tickets.
The numbers may need to be based on a percentage rather than direct number due to changing away ticket allocations.
What you think PB?
cleavers
Moderator
You always bang on about younger fans, but its not only them. As I posted earlier, I was able to get a ticket for pretty much all the away games about 5 years ago, my only away game last year was in Ukraine (and a great time was had).I understand what you are saying in regards to loyal fans, but something has to change in my opinion. Unless you know someone it’s bascially impossible for younger fans to get tickets to away matches.
Despite being eligible for most away games, I often couldn't go because I work shifts and weekends, I also live a long way from Manchester, and every home game is like an away game for me, and so I prioritise those as a season card holder. I've done all the distant away games over the years, but because I could only ever manage 7 or 8 away games a season (and most home games), I fell back points wise each season, and about 5 years ago, it became difficult to get tickets, I then dropped platinum as it wasn't worth the extra £50 as my point got further and further behind the top ones.
I'm now luckily at a position in life where I could do most home and away games (financially and work wise), but only occasionally are my points good enough for away games. My lad is 28 (so part of your younger fans, and he's done the hard years since he was about 7 or 8), and just down to having platinum he's passed my points total, but we go together, so he can get some away tickets now but I can't, and so he's also not going as often.
Something needs to change to benefit ALL groups, not just one or another group, and like PB says those who go everywhere should continue to be the first priority, but we need a system that doesn't allow some fans to buy tickets with no intention of ever going to most, but just keeping their points total artificially high so they can pick and choose the top games, and just sell on to others the ones they're not arsed going too.
No idea what that system looks like, but hopefully we can find some compromise somehow, but for ALL groups not just yours.