The Boxing thread

Fat Chance said:
except leonard and ali didnt fight away from home...
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Ali did fight away from home many times. And he fought everybody there was as for most of the time they were fighting for the undisputed championship. Not taking away from Furys achievement but beating a heavyweight like Wilder doesn't compare in my eyes to beating the likes of Frasier Foreman, Norton, Liston, Paterson, Quarry, Ellis, Shavers and several others all of which were significantly better boxers than the wild Wilder. Sorry but i dont think Fury is in Ali's League in comebacks let alone ability.

Leonard came back after three years out and defeated the undisputed and most formidable boxer of his generation in Marvin Hagler who was two weights heavier than Leonards welterweight.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
Ali did fight away from home many times. And he fought everybody there was as for most of the time they were fighting for the undisputed championship. Not taking away from Furys achievement but beating a heavyweight like Wilder doesn't compare in my eyes to beating the likes of Frasier Foreman, Norton, Liston, Paterson, Quarry, Ellis, Shavers and several others all of which were significantly better boxers than the wild Wilder. Sorry but i dont think Fury is in Ali's League in comebacks let alone ability.

Leonard came back after three years out and defeated the undisputed and most formidable boxer of his generation in Marvin Hagler who was two weights heavier than Leonards welterweight.
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Ali didnt fight away from home after his break from the sport (his comeback)....the rest of your chat is superflous really cause its waxing-on something fury never said

Leonards comeback was bonny enough...but it wasnt away from home....and whilst i respect your opinion and your right to have it, leonard dictated absolutley everything about the fight including the distance in a 15 round era ( marvins opinion is enlightening), i cant recall one person in the apollo that night thought sugar actually won...fury went on his lonesome, like he did to germany.
 
Fat Chance said:
Ali didnt fight away from home after his break from the sport....the rest of your chat is superflous really cause its waxing-on something fury never said

Leonards comeback was bonny enough...but it wasnt away from home....and whilst i respect your opinion and your right to have it, leonard dictated absolutley everything about the fight including the distance in a 15 round era...fury went on his lonesome, like he did to germany.
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After his comeback in 1970 Ali fought in Zurich, Tokyo, Vancouver, Dublin, Jakarta, Zaire, Kuala Lumpa, Manilla, Pueto Rico, Munich. None of which are in the US.he fought everyone and anyone before or after his forced exile and the fight against Foreman has to be the best comeback ever in boxing history. No one gave him a chance. Foreman was undisputed ans considered invincible and had destroyed Frasier.

I think you will find Fury said he was robbed of the greatest comeback in boxing history. Thats what my orignial post was in reponse to. Final point I don't know if you were arround when Hagler totally dominated the middleweight division for 7 years, but he was undisputed and considered a brilliant fighter and boxer. To compare Wilder to Hagler, with Wilder holding one of four heavyweight titles for three years without fighting any of the other leading contenders is frankly a strange one. But its all about opinions as you state!
 
Sorry pal i think your getting your apples and zebra-crossings arse about...it's why i mentioned anything other than Ali's comeback fight is absolutely superflous,, Zaire was'nt a comeback...Ali's comeback was mega but it was hometown...full stop.

Marvin being mega, you're preaching to the converted, do i consider having a knock-up stood in the centre of a ring with wilder greater than running around marvellous in the largest ring known to man for 12 rounds (and not 15 cause ray said so) and refusing to engage with a showboat pantomine at the round end...yeah i do consider it greater and presumably the 3 thousand punters in the appollo that night found it greater evidenced by them stood up booing the result. Great result for leonard but not a great performance...the polar opposite of fury saturday night.
 
Leonard & Hagler where my favourite fighters i couldn't choose a winner before the fight because i liked them equally but at the end & even now all these years later i couldnt believe Leonard got the verdict Hagler was the clear winner everyone apart from the ringside judges thought the same boxing politics may have come into it who knows .
 
Fat Chance said:
Sorry pal i think your getting your apples and zebra-crossings arse about...it's why i mentioned anything other than Ali's comeback fight is absolutely superflous,, Zaire was'nt a comeback...Ali's comeback was mega but it was hometown...full stop.

Marvin being mega, you're preaching to the converted, do i consider having a knock-up stood in the centre of a ring with wilder greater than running around marvellous in the largest ring known to man for 12 rounds (and not 15 cause ray said so) and refusing to engage with a showboat pantomine at the round end...yeah i do consider it greater and presumably the 3 thousand punters in the appollo that night found it greater evidenced by them stood up booing the result. Great result for leonard but not a great performance...the polar opposite of fury saturday night.
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I think you will find you said Ali never boxed away from home after his return. You were clearly wrong in that statement. Secondly If you cant count Alis incredible fights with Frasier and Foreman as comeback fights as he fought his way back up the fighting every contender on the way. Then surely you have to say Furys fight on sat wasn't a comeback as he fought a couple of non contender make weights before Wilder? so easy in fact that you perhaps forgot about them?? You can't have it both ways?

We shall have to dissagree about Leonard, he simply outboxed Hagler and refused to get in a slug match. Many thought so at the time including the judges. Same as Fury did to Wilder you could say? But sadly just not as effectively as he ended up on the deck a couple of times.

Anyway good debate. It's not the first time and won't be the last people discuss whos the greatest in boxing.

That aside Fury has impressed me ans many people i suspect. I hope he gets his rematch and then takes on Joshua.
 
phud said:
Leonard & Hagler where my favourite fighters i couldn't choose a winner before the fight because i liked them equally but at the end & even now all these years later i couldnt believe Leonard got the verdict Hagler was the clear winner everyone apart from the ringside judges thought the same boxing politics may have come into it who knows .
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Based on punches landed. Hagler didn't land many. That was the problem. It was a difficult fight to judge as Hagler was the more aggressive but you have to land to score.
 
I have watched Hagler v Leonard at least 8 times and always have Marvin winning by 3 or 4 rounds (116-112, or 115-112). Leonard landed 15 more 'punches' than Hagler throughout the entire fight but half of his entire punches were flicking jabs before moving out of range. Hagler forced the whole fight while Leonard tried to steal the last 30 seconds to a minute of each round and on the whole did better than anyone ever expected against the machine that was Hagler. I think it was Norman Mailer who stated Leonard had created a optical illusion that night and I agree with him totally.

Hagler and Leonard are two of the greatest fighters to ever step foot in the ring and in my opinion whilst Fury and Wilder are just two fairly good, huge heavyweights in a fading division.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
I think you will find you said Ali never boxed away from home after his return. You were clearly wrong in that statement.
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That's correct i did, Ali never boxed away from home after his return (from a break in the sport)...leading to his title challenge, which is what we're discussing and what Fury was discussing....simple simon tackle really.

My apologies for mis leading ya over furys two earlier warm-up fights that you're now considering to be comeback but with you failing to mention Ali's warm-ups i thought it was a given that everybody realised Furys large shout was title fight comebacks and not fights with ex school mates (per Ali/clay).

Thankfully amidst the confusion one thing is for certain, when it comes to championship comeback fighting not many are prepaired to travel overseas.

You've got to land to score alright (unless you're a gypo), that was the problem though, leonard never landed much either but claimed he did with hands in the air, it was a good trick and it worked well, though the seasoned boxing trade say you've gotta go and take the title off a 7yr champion...leonard certainly wasnt getting knocked down lol's .
 
Fat Chance said:
That's correct i did, Ali never boxed away from home after his return (from a break in the sport)...leading to his title challenge, which is what we're discussing and what Fury was discussing....simple simon tackle really.

My apologies for mis leading ya over furys two earlier warm-up fights that you're now considering to be comeback but with you failing to mention Ali's warm-ups i thought it was a given that everybody realised Furys large shout was title fight comebacks and not fights with ex school mates (per Ali/clay).

Thankfully amidst the confusion one thing is for certain, when it comes to championship comeback fighting not many are prepaired to travel overseas.

You've got to land to score alright (unless you're a gypo), that was the problem though, leonard never landed much either but claimed he did with hands in the air, it was a good trick and it worked well, though the seasoned boxing trade say you've gotta go and take the title off a 7yr champion...leonard certainly wasnt getting knocked down lol's .
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It would be simple simon really if you knew about or even bothered to look Ali's record. You can try and mock him as much as you want but the fact is he did fight every challenger on his return, not his school mates as you said lol. He did Box away from home after his comeback as you incorrectly stated and he beat Foreman to become the undisputed Heavyweight in Zaire, which as far as i am aware isn't in the USA and is widely regarded as the greatest boxing comeback of all time. More than happy to discuss opinions, but you seriously need to get a few facts right on your head first as you are beginning to sound like Donald Trump. ;-)
 
my apologies fella..his schoolmate was the fight after his comeback....i'm getting olde.

You do appear to be setting up a straw man by piling on the greatness of Ali and his entire career and trying to squeeze that greatness into his comebck fight...where upon like fury he was decked but protested greatly that he'd landed 40million more punches than smokey and had not got the decision because of him having too much to say...the parallelagrams are frightening....except Ali's fight was hometown....just like leonards comeback.
 
Fat Chance said:
my apologies fella..his schoolmate was the fight after his comeback....i'm getting olde.

You do appear to be setting up a straw man by piling on the greatness of Ali and his entire career and trying to squeeze that greatness into his comebck fight...where upon like fury he was decked but protested greatly that he'd landed 40million more punches than smokey and had not got the decision because of him having too much to say...the parallelagrams are frightening....except Ali's fight was hometown....just like leonards comeback.
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I gave you two fights that I thought were better comebacks. You dissagree. So in conclusion are you backing Furys statement that his performance would have been the greatest comeback in the historic boxing if he had won as many clearly thought he did? Just so I understand. Cheers
 
i dont think furys performance should trump Ali's even though Ali lost and Fury drew but because he was away from home i think his performance is up there with the greatest comebacks simply because heavys certainly dont do absent yrs comebacks.

Leonards performance v hagler left a bitterish taste in nearly everybodies mouth...i wouldnt rate it with the above, in fact i'd rate Foremans performance v holyfield after such a long break above leonard winning the title at middle...and like Ali... Foreman lost.
 
Fat Chance said:
i dont think furys performance should trump Ali's even though Ali lost and Fury drew but because he was away from home i think his performance is up there with the greatest comebacks simply because heavys certainly dont do absent yrs comebacks.

Leonards performance v hagler left a bitterish taste in nearly everybodies mouth...i wouldnt rate it with the above, in fact i'd rate Foremans performance v holyfield after such a long break above leonard winning the title at middle...and like Ali... Foreman lost.
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So we agree! ;-)
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
Ali did fight away from home many times. And he fought everybody there was as for most of the time they were fighting for the undisputed championship. Not taking away from Furys achievement but beating a heavyweight like Wilder doesn't compare in my eyes to beating the likes of Frasier Foreman, Norton, Liston, Paterson, Quarry, Ellis, Shavers and several others all of which were significantly better boxers than the wild Wilder. Sorry but i dont think Fury is in Ali's League in comebacks let alone ability.

Leonard came back after three years out and defeated the undisputed and most formidable boxer of his generation in Marvin Hagler who was two weights heavier than Leonards welterweight.
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Love watching this fight.
Leonard is my hero.

Was a great fight by Tyson,
The rematch is going to be tasty.
 
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