UEFA FFP investigation - CAS decision to be announced Monday, 13th July 9.30am BST

[chesterguy]

Any award from CAS can be appealed but only to the Swiss Supreme court

 

[The Riot Club]

CAS has ruled against them plenty of times previously, but I would much rather place my faith in proper Court appointed judges. I’m fucking weary of the whole crooked set up we’re having to deal with. One of the biggest multi-billion dollar industries on the planet, and there’s no recourse to legal action. It’s bullshit

I’m sure we can try. Being denied recourse to legal representation is illegal in itself isn’t it?

 

[Exeter Blue I am here]

It cannot be enforceable that Uefa can prohibit taking the matter to a higher court. It may be in their rules, but it won't be a legally enforceable rule.

It’s been confirmed as legally binding

 

[laserblue]

It may be UEFA's rule but that doesn't necessarily mean it's the law. If City are sanctioned and CAS doesn't uphold it City can still effectively challenge it by challenging FFP in the ECJ or other court. I know that's not the preferred option because we got in before the drawbridge was pulled up but I don't see why not if it comes to that.

I had a contract of employment that specifically prevented me from working for a competitor within two years of leaving the company. That was my employers' rule but it was totally unenforceable in law as it amounted to restraint of trade. A couple of my colleagues did exactly that and there was nothing the company could do about it.

 

[Tricky_Trev]

If City were an ECA club at the time of this MOU being agreed... why did they agree?? Or would it have been agreed solely by Agneli?

 

[MillionMilesAway]

I’m not gonna post the link, but Duncan Arseholes seems to think there’s a Memorandum of Understanding in place, which City are parties to, that prevents any club banned from the CL because of FFP violations, from then having recourse to the Courts to challenge that ban. Behind the Times paywall, so I haven’t read it. Anyone with access able to give us a summation.....and, yeh, I know it’s dopey Duncan

This one presumably:
https://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/uefaorg/General/02/59/04/66/2590466_DOWNLOAD.pdf

The MoU has been in effect in various forms for years, so isn't news.

D11 has The ECA (which CIty will be members of) agreeing:
"to adhere to the UEFA and the FIFA Statutes and regulations (regarding FIFA, subject to Articles E.7 and E.8) and to recognise the Court of Arbitration for Sport (hereinafter “CAS”) as the sole competent body to decide on sports related disputes (in particular disputes related to Club Licensing and Financial Fair Play, disciplinary matters, to the participation in or exclusion from competitions and to the players release rules) between ECA, its member clubs and UEFA (and its members), including for provisional or super-provisional measures, to the explicit exclusion of any State court;"

D5 probably isn't relevant (D4 appears to be irrelevant to the City issue) also has ECA agreeing:
to ensure that its member clubs withdraw support and cease to be party to any existing legal proceedings, and not to support or be party itself to any existing legal proceedings, against UEFA and/or any other European National Associations (the latter does not concern purely domestic relations between National Associations and their clubs) brought by themselves or any association or grouping as mentioned in point D.4 above, in particular as regards the player release rule;

 

[Tracking back]

I haven't been involved in this discussion. Simply because the champions league means nothing to me. I only ever watched it to see the rags get beat or because I liked the way Barcelona played. We play better than them now so I've got no reason to watch it whatsoever.

Ban us and we hoover up all the domestic silverware (again) don't ban us and we more than likely go onto to win the blasted thing.

One thing is for sure: whether we get a ban from UEFA or not, the clubs (and they know who they are, more worryingly for them so does Sheik Mansour) who are behind it are FUCKED!

 

[Exeter Blue I am here]

I’m sure we can try. Being denied recourse to legal representation is illegal in itself isn’t it?

We’re not being denied recourse to legal representation. The MOU is legally binding. Think of it as a pre-nup. Did we understand what we were signing up to? Unquestionably. So, what would be the point in having that pre-nup if you could drive a coach and horses through it at a later date?

 

[Ardwick Green Blue]

Regardless of the outcome (& I’m now of the opinion we’ll serve a one season CL ban) the club has to get smarter as it’s clear that our rivals are still desperately doing everything they can to sink us.

This means finding ever more creative ways of circumventing FFP as it obviously a weapon aimed directly at us but more importantly we must not get caught out. Allowing effectively all our club mails to be hacked and dumped by an individual was a result of gross negligence and complacency. Possibly the thinking was that after taking a pinch we were home free but that is absolutely not the case.

I’m still very confident for the future as I can’t imagine Sheikh Mansour is going to slink away having been beaten by rival club owners and the bent UEFA.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

No worries. Stefan has followed up on Twitter and acknowledged that CAS appears to be our final port of call and we cannot challenge any punishment in the Courts.

Thanks for the extra info. Stefan is a legal mind, yes?

I didn't think anyone had claimed that City could challenge punishment in court; court action would be challenging FFP as a whole.

 

[B\connellblue]

It would appear not

Some years back coolmore took out a high court injunction to allow the banned mick kinane to ride in a classic. So it looks like there's precedent for sport cases to appeal to the legal system.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

If we feel we are being unjustly punished, why can’t we take it to a proper court of law not just the CAS sports one? Surely we could argue about loss of business, commercial value, income, etc at a real court not just the one for sports arbitration?

I think the argument against that would be that City have voluntarily agreed to the rules.

Deciding to play by rules when we want, and not to when we don't want, is something people here have complained about regarding other clubs.

 

[Exeter Blue I am here]

I haven't been involved in this discussion. Simply because the champions league means nothing to me. I only ever watched it to see the rags get beat or because I liked the way Barcelona played. We play better than them now so I've got no reason to watch it whatsoever.

Ban us and we hoover up all the domestic silverware (again) don't ban us and we more than likely go onto to win the blasted thing.

One thing is for sure: whether we get a ban from UEFA or not, the clubs (and they know who they are, more worryingly for them so does Sheik Mansour) who are behind it are FUCKED!

We’ve been here before. We might not be arsed if we get banned from the CL, but the players sure as hell will. Let’s say the ban is 2 or 3 years, you think Kev, Raz, Bernie, etc, won’t be influenced by that in terms of whether they’d want to stay at the club? They aren’t City fans. And notwithstanding that, the revenue the competition generates for us is huge.

There’s lots of fighting talk about how UEFA and the clubs behind this crooked sham will be “fucked” if they punish us, but if we don’t have recourse to the Courts to sue their arses or contest the legality of FFP, I don’t see how they will be

 

[MillionMilesAway]

Some years back coolmore took out a high court injunction to allow the banned mick kinane to ride in a classic. So it looks like there's precedent for sport cases to appeal to the legal system.

That would be pretty different, I think.

Any punishment handed down by UEFA's adjudicatory committee does not claim to be a legal judgement, but one handed down by a committee clubs have agreed to be party to. Appealing it to a legal court would be like appealling a red card to a court.

 

[Len Rum]

So it’s CAS or bust? Seems like we can’t go to anyone other than them? Makes me wonder if UEFA have their claws into them too.

Yep, may be CAS or bust.
But is the MOU legally binding? Depends on the precise wording in the memorandum.

 

[Neville Kneville]

We’re not being denied recourse to legal representation. The MOU is legally binding. Think of it as a pre-nup. Did we understand what we were signing up to? Unquestionably. So, what would be the point in having that pre-nup if you could drive a coach and horses through it at a later date?

If your wife attacked you with a carving knife, you might not get her money, but you could still have her arrested.

 

[Exeter Blue I am here]

Thanks for the extra info. Stefan is a legal mind, yes?

I didn't think anyone had claimed that City could challenge punishment in court; court action would be challenging FFP as a whole.

Yes, Stefan has a legal background and is our resident font of legal knowledge on Twitter. I’ve asked him the latter question (does the MOU prevent us from contesting FFP disputes and punishments only, or does it extend to challenging FFP on anti-competitive grounds as well), but I haven’t had a reply yet

 

[Tricky_Trev]

We’ve been here before. We might not be arsed if we get banned from the CL, but the players sure as hell will. Let’s say the ban is 2 or 3 years, you think Kev, Raz, Bernie, etc, won’t be influenced by that in terms of whether they’d want to stay at the club? They aren’t City fans. And notwithstanding that, the revenue the competition generates for us is huge.

There’s lots of fighting talk about how UEFA and the clubs behind this crooked sham will be “fucked” if they punish us, but if we don’t have recourse to the Courts to sue their arses or contest the legality of FFP, I don’t see how they will be

Yeah, it’s definitely a spanner in the works. It won’t be a shock to City of course, but more to us fans. We’ve been bigging up how they’re all going to be fucked and UEFA effectively ended. Doesn’t appear that’s even a possibility. I don’t even trust CAS that much anymore, purely because that’s who UEFA want us to go to. If they want it, I don’t like it.

 

[SilverFox2]

I wonder if CAS will take into consideration that we historically signed up to the rules yet our 100 page document will clearly show that uefa disregard their own rules and procedures so they misled us into signing their paperwork?

 

[Tricky_Trev]

Yep, may be CAS or bust.
But is the MOU legally binding? Depends on the precise wording in the memorandum.

I’m no legal mind, but it looks robust enough to be legally binding to me.