F1 thread - 2019 Season

[Henkeman]

Okay I get it you're a Hamilton fan. I don't care who wins.

Vettel crossed the line first ergo he deserved to win. I disagree with the Stewards as did the ex drivers commentating on Sky.

Simple really.

Irrespective of the rightness or wrongness, Vettel crossed the line first because Hamilton didn't need to overtake him. Suggesting that Vettel should have won because he crossed the line first is nonsense.

 

[DrBlueBob]

I'm not saying it wasn't a penalty, I just think the narrative Seb deliberately squeezed him into the wall is a bit silly when you look at his cockpit camera

I tend to agree with you. I was quoting your post to provide context to @SWP's back 's post.
Not having a pop. For my money he went into the corner either too fast or on the wrong line which dictated how he exited the corner thereby pputting the squeeze on Hamilton. Ergo penalty should stand.

 

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

I tend to agree with you. I was quoting your post to provide context to @SWP's back 's post.
Not having a pop. For my money he went into the corner either too fast or on the wrong line which dictated how he exited the corner thereby pputting the squeeze on Hamilton. Ergo penalty should stand.

I read he might have got dirty air from the lapped cars, not too sure about that though.
Was weird how his back end kicked out, my money was on his brakes were overheating, he got a message from the team that the sky panel highlighted during the race and it was common knowledge brakes overheating was quite likely apparently.

 

[Met Line Hammer]

I'm not an F1 driver or ex F1 driver for that matter, but I just can't see how a penalty should not have been given. He came off the track, could have caused an accident, impeded Hamilton. Vettel and vettel alones fault, well not his actual fault but you get the picture. As has been said Hamilton would have reined him in anyway.

The stewards did not 'ruin' the race.

Oh, Vettel is a massive bell end btw

 

[dave_blue12]

Irrespective of the rightness or wrongness, Vettel crossed the line first because Hamilton didn't need to overtake him. Suggesting that Vettel should have won because he crossed the line first is nonsense.

That's how the winners are decided in racing.

We will never know if Hamilton could have passed Vettel as the stewards decision robbed us of that possibility.

Personally I don't think Hamilton would have made that pass as the cars were too evenly matched on this track.

 

[Tim of the Oak]

Well done Lewis, the deserved winner.

 

[Henkeman]

That's how the winners are decided in racing.

We will never know if Hamilton could have passed Vettel as the stewards decision robbed us of that possibility.

Personally I don't think Hamilton would have made that pass as the cars were too evenly matched on this track.

Indeed we'll never know, which is why your comment about Vettel deserving it when Hamilton plainly wasn't even trying to pass him is unutterable nonsense.

 

[dave_blue12]

Indeed we'll never know, which is why your comment about Vettel deserving it when Hamilton plainly wasn't even trying to pass him is unutterable nonsense.

Unlike you I'll keep it civilised.

Vettel got put his car on pole and drove from start to finish in the lead, apart from the pitstop. Only a contentious decision by the Stewards prevented him winning the race. Unutterable nonsense ? I don't think so.

I think the best course of action would have been for the incident to be reviewed after the race. Obviously once Hamilton knew the penalty he didn't have to try and there can be no appeal allowed as the communication of the penalty altered Hamilton's race.

 

[Henkeman]

Unlike you I'll keep it civilised.

Vettel got put his car on pole and drove from start to finish in the lead, apart from the pitstop. Only a contentious decision by the Stewards prevented him winning the race. Unutterable nonsense ? I don't think so.

I think the best course of action would have been for the incident to be reviewed after the race. Obviously once Hamilton knew the penalty he didn't have to try and there can be no appeal allowed as the communication of the penalty altered Hamilton's race.

I said not a word about you, I said your claim is nonsense. And it is. You cannot for a single second assume that Vettel would have won that race when Hamilton didn't need to overtake him to win. To do so is preposterous. Again, that's not saying that he would have done, it's not saying that the penalty was fair, but it IS saying that having happened, all Hamilton had to do was keep within 5 seconds. Assuming Vettel would have won is as ludicrous as assuming Hamilton definitely would have overtaken. You can object to the decision without going Mystic Meg on the outcome.

 

[DrBlueBob]

Indeed we'll never know, which is why your comment about Vettel deserving it when Hamilton plainly wasn't even trying to pass him is unutterable nonsense.

I think Lewis would have passed him had the opportunity had been there. I think I'm right in saying that he even said wasn't how he wanted to win, but having said that he certainly wasn't going to take any huge risks to do so.

 

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

I think Lewis would have passed him had the opportunity had been there. I think I'm right in saying that he even said wasn't how he wanted to win, but having said that he certainly wasn't going to take any huge risks to do so.

I don't think Lewis will give a toss.
He'd rather win like that than finishing 2nd in an exhilarating race like any professional sportsman

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

The overhead view of the incident clearly showed Vettel turn the wheels to the right as Hamilton loomed large in his mirrors. It appeared to be a separate movement over and above the camber of the track bringing him naturally back on line. In my opinion, and more importantly the stewards opinion Vetell deliberately squeezed Hamilton towards the wall at racing speed in order to retain his place after he alone made a mistake.

 

[Bluemoon dan]

When you watch the onboard shots from Hamilton it is a pretty clear case of Vettel doing a double movement to block him, when you see the onboard from Vettel you can see it was only a double movement because he wasn't in control and was still fighting to get it back. It's a very difficult thing that I think could have gone either way and the opposite party be very aggrieved. I do wonder though, if Ferrari should have told Vettel to let Hamilton through straight after the incident. I appreciate that bouncing your car across the grass is the exact opposite of gaining an advantage by leaving the track but the principal is kind of the same, had there been a wall there rather than the patch of grass then it would have been race over for Seb, the fact there wasnt and he was able to go over the grass meant he was able to leave the track and maintain his position.

 

[DrBlueBob]

I don't think Lewis will give a toss.
He'd rather win like that than finishing 2nd in an exhilarating race like any professional sportsman

Agreed, although;
1 Winning on track
2 Winning via Vettel's penalty
3 Second place

 

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

The overhead view of the incident clearly showed Vettel turn the wheels to the right as Hamilton loomed large in his mirrors. It appeared to be a separate movement over and above the camber of the track bringing him naturally back on line. In my opinion, and more importantly the stewards opinion Vetell deliberately squeezed Hamilton towards the wall at racing speed in order to retain his place after he alone made a mistake.

It's not that the stewards viewed it as deliberate it's that it was viewed as unsafe

When you watch the onboard shots from Hamilton it is a pretty clear case of Vettel doing a double movement to block him, when you see the onboard from Vettel you can see it was only a double movement because he wasn't in control and was still fighting to get it back. It's a very difficult thing that I think could have gone either way and the opposite party be very aggrieved. I do wonder though, if Ferrari should have told Vettel to let Hamilton through straight after the incident. I appreciate that bouncing your car across the grass is the exact opposite of gaining an advantage by leaving the track but the principal is kind of the same, had there been a wall there rather than the patch of grass then it would have been race over for Seb, the fact there wasnt and he was able to go over the grass meant he was able to leave the track and maintain his position.

I genuinely can't see it, his wheel was all over the place. I think he did somewhat well to keep it out of the wall in that situation

 

[SWP's back]

I disagree with the Stewards as did the ex drivers commentating on Sky.

The ex driver on Sky never likes penalties and I respect his view. The ex driver(s) that are paid Stewards disagree and it’s their responsibility to ensure the rules are adhered to on grounds on both safety and sporting merit.

Seb made a mistake, left the track and gained an advantage by stopping Lewis overtaking. In doing so, he also made Lewis slam on the brakes and nearly steer into the wall to avoid him, hence it was an unsafe track re-entry.

 

[Henkeman]

The ex driver on Sky never likes penalties and I respect his view. The ex driver(s) that are paid Stewards disagree and it’s their responsibility to ensure the rules are adhered to on grounds on both safety and sporting merit.

Seb made a mistake, left the track and gained an advantage by stopping Lewis overtaking. In doing so, he also made Lewis slam on the brakes and nearly steer into the wall to avoid him, hence it was an unsafe track re-entry.

I felt they were being a bit more nuanced than that, saying that according to the rules it was the right decision, but querying whether the rule was right in the first place. I've forgotten who it was, but someone on there was saying it was a 60/40 decision, and should be respected either way it went, which seemed a reasonable argument to me.

 

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

The ex driver on Sky never likes penalties and I respect his view. The ex driver(s) that are paid Stewards disagree and it’s their responsibility to ensure the rules are adhered to on grounds on both safety and sporting merit.

Seb made a mistake, left the track and gained an advantage by stopping Lewis overtaking. In doing so, he also made Lewis slam on the brakes and nearly steer into the wall to avoid him, hence it was an unsafe track re-entry.

I do find it interesting the amount of ex drivers that came out and said they didn't feel it warranted a penalty.
I keep hopping from one side to the other

 

[MillionMilesAway]

I felt they were being a bit more nuanced than that, saying that according to the rules it was the right decision, but querying whether the rule was right in the first place. I've forgotten who it was, but someone on there was saying it was a 60/40 decision, and should be respected either way it went, which seemed a reasonable argument to me.

That was Toto Wolff, I think. Possible that others also said it.

And yes, they were more nuanced.

 

[Gray]

So Vetel's car does not have any brakes then?