Another new Brexit thread

[MillionMilesAway]

Is that cost effective? Insofar as I understand it we would have to gain approval either by the FDA or EU or both if we sat outside the regulatory jurisdiction of either area. Would it not make sense to enter into an agreement with either jurisdiction so that both markets can be accessed without unnecessary cost or would not production relocate to either jurisdiction to access both markets? That would leave open the question of access to the UK market I guess.

That's what I said initially, I thought, probably the EU option.
We'll jump in on one side or the other, and copy their regs - "anything that passes EU regs passes UK regs" or something similar.
It may be possible to have both systems and pick and choose, but it confuses things.

Our drugs need to go through EU and FDA to get to market now; they'll still need to do so. I expect we'll just rubberstamp the EU option as being enough. I couldn't tell you how many drugs we have different regs on currently (between the UK and EU).

 

[west didsblue]

I would suggest that it only requires a read of the EU leaders strategy documents and an exercise of analysis with an objective viewpoint

You also need to take into account that whichever strategy documents you are referring to will not automatically come to fruition without full agreement from 28 (soon to be 27) countries. To expect it all to happen within a generation or two is pure scaremongering from an anti-EU perspective and wishful thinking from a pro-integration perspective. The reality is that any moves towards towards full integration will be at a snails pace if at all imo. With us in the EU progress would be even slower.

 

[Saddleworth2]

I would suggest that it only requires a read of the EU leaders strategy documents and an exercise of analysis with an objective viewpoint

If intent = inevitability then we would have exited the EU by now. We are still back to, you believe it’s inevitable in your judgement despite the evidence of non conformity up until now. You might be right about all of this but it’s still a step too far to say into inevitable.

 

[Saddleworth2]

That has been answered several times - and it is indeed inevitable

The 'fast-track' group will push forward on integration and the 'left-behind' group will become increasingly marginalised and there will come a time when a 'Blairesque' PM, backed by a EUphile HoC will decide that we are losing out...…. There will be no inconvenient citizen involvement.

It is leave now or be fully integrated - might as well get on with embracing it - because we are not avoiding it if we Remain.

It may be an inconvenient fact - but it is the truth, IMO, of how things will work out - which is why the EU are relaxed about a 'two-speed' approach

So it’s inevitable in your opinion. That doesn’t make it fact though does it? Maybe a phrase like, ‘the balance of probability’ would be more appropriate than ‘inevitable’.

 

[mcfc1632]

Just to add, I'm positive that such plans do exist in Brussels, indeed George's wicki article described some of them. The point is that the UK has to agree to further integration. Whilst it might happen in the future because someone in government thinks its a grand idea, its surely not inevitable which it the contention by some posters this morning.

You may think that it is not inevitable and others clearly want to agree with you

That is your opinion/preferred view etc.

Mine and that of others is equally as adamant that it takes only a little objectivity when considering the stated strategies of the 5 presidents and the EU sycophantic nature of our own leaders to 'read the runes'.

For me, any denial of what is so clearly obvious, is just an obstinate desire to avoiding facing up to inconvenient truths - that is your right

I suspect that you actually do know the right of it, evidenced by you saying:

"Whilst it might happen in the future because someone in government thinks its a grand idea...…"

Just think back to Blair's desires that were only just blocked by Brown and the extent to which the HoC is clearly Pro-EU

What you suggest as being a possibility, I think is clearly more of a certainty...…. Just a question of when - not if.

But - no point in knocking it around IMO - to face up to the reality would, at a stroke, remove the main reasons that have been used to deride the views of Leavers and undermine the positions that have so strongly been expressed by Remainers on these threads.

We Leavers have our own positions - maybe you and others are starting to realise that they we are not so 'wacky' and driven by the insulting tendencies that we have been accused of.

We respect the rights of Remainers to hold their views - perhaps, so well done to Ric for providing focus - some of the Remainers are starting to demonstrate a level of tolerance to Leavers having their views. It certainly feels more encouraging.

 

[BobKowalski]

I think if bribes or threats are all you have left then the chances of getting what you want are zero

 

[aguero93:20]

Hence why there are liberal conservatives and conservative liberalism, which many conservative voters in this country descrive themselves as being, which is what i'm pointing out.

Apologies for not considering those with a conservative mindset as being "evil" or "the enemy".

I'd see both as non sequiturs tbh, you can be fiscally liberal and socially conservative (as I'd describe myself) or fiscally conservative and socially liberal (lib dems) but you can't be liberal conservative on either subject and the UK is as a whole socially liberal so the debate is on the fiscal side.

 

[BobKowalski]

The full text on what Varadkar said earlier today on Brexit Britain

'A consequence of Brexit for Britain is that it will fall into relative economic decline for many decades, probably be overtaken by France again and slowly over time it'll be overtaken by lots of countries in Asia. One of the difficulties for Britain is they're struggling to cope with the fact that as a country and an economy they're not as important in the world as they used to be. There are 100m people living in Vietnam, they're going to be overtaken by Korea, India economically. It's inevitable and that's why most European countries understand why we need to get together, stick together and integrate so we can preserve our way of life, our prosperity, our peace and security. Britain has never really fully accepted that in the way that France and Germany and Italy did after the war.'Q: Maybe Brexit is finally the sun setting on the British Empire? Perhaps, but that's their choice, it's their decision. We have to respect the decisions they make.'

 

[aguero93:20]

Dublin have now decided that if London can trash talk so can they :)

“As a country and economy they are not as important as they used to be.” @LeoVaradkar on the UK. While @PatKennyNT asks, “Is the sun finally setting on the British empire?”

Good lad Leo.

 

[blueinsa]

The full text on what Varadkar said earlier today on Brexit Britain

'A consequence of Brexit for Britain is that it will fall into relative economic decline for many decades, probably be overtaken by France again and slowly over time it'll be overtaken by lots of countries in Asia. One of the difficulties for Britain is they're struggling to cope with the fact that as a country and an economy they're not as important in the world as they used to be. There are 100m people living in Vietnam, they're going to be overtaken by Korea, India economically. It's inevitable and that's why most European countries understand why we need to get together, stick together and integrate so we can preserve our way of life, our prosperity, our peace and security. Britain has never really fully accepted that in the way that France and Germany and Italy did after the war.'Q: Maybe Brexit is finally the sun setting on the British Empire? Perhaps, but that's their choice, it's their decision. We have to respect the decisions they make.'

Bit of a giveaway when he mentioned integrate there.

Like I said announce a 2nd ref tomorrow asking do we leave regardless on the 31st October or do we not only remain, we fully integrate and become an integral member on the road to the United States of Europe.

Put it to bed once and for all.

 

[aguero93:20]

I think if bribes or threats are all you have left then the chances of getting what you want are zero

We don't want a bribe (unless it's the backstop as agreed) and threatening us has never worked.

 

[west didsblue]

I am trying to work out how something that is stated as inevitable can be an opinion.

 

[Saddleworth2]

You may think that it is not inevitable and others clearly want to agree with you

That is your opinion/preferred view etc.

Mine and that of others is equally as adamant that it takes only a little objectivity when considering the stated strategies of the 5 presidents and the EU sycophantic nature of our own leaders to 'read the runes'.

For me, any denial of what is so clearly obvious, is just an obstinate desire to avoiding facing up to inconvenient truths - that is your right

I suspect that you actually do know the right of it, evidenced by you saying:

"Whilst it might happen in the future because someone in government thinks its a grand idea...…"

Just think back to Blair's desires that were only just blocked by Brown and the extent to which the HoC is clearly Pro-EU

What you suggest as being a possibility, I think is clearly more of a certainty...…. Just a question of when - not if.

But - no point in knocking it around IMO - to face up to the reality would, at a stroke, remove the main reasons that have been used to deride the views of Leavers and undermine the positions that have so strongly been expressed by Remainers on these threads.

We Leavers have our own positions - maybe you and others are starting to realise that they we are not so 'wacky' and driven by the insulting tendencies that we have been accused of.

We respect the rights of Remainers to hold their views - perhaps, so well done to Ric for providing focus - some of the Remainers are starting to demonstrate a level of tolerance to Leavers having their views. It certainly feels more encouraging.

More of a certainty i’m Ok with. It’s your use of inevitable that sticks in the throat. I respect the honestly held views that some remainers have that further deep integration will happen as well as the distaste for it. My point is simply about the word inevitable. It isn’t. Very little in this world is.

 

[Saddleworth2]

I am trying to work out how something that is stated as inevitable can be an opinion.

That’s my point mate.

 

[blueinsa]

Good lad Leo.

Mouthy **** hiding behind Merkel and Macron.

Leo that is ;-)

 

[west didsblue]

That’s my point mate.

Yes I know.
Can’t understand why others don’t seem to understand such a simple point.

 

[blueinsa]

More of a certainty i’m Ok with. It’s your use of inevitable that sticks in the throat. I respect the honestly held views that some remainers have that further deep integration will happen as well as the distaste for it. My point is simply about the word inevitable. It isn’t. Very little in this world is.

Pity that isn’t applied to the rhetoric of inevitable meltdown if we leave ;-)

 

[aguero93:20]

Mouthy **** hiding behind Merkel and Macron.

Leo that is ;-)

He's not hiding behind anyone mate, it's the way of the world, us European countries work together. Even then he's given Macron a fair few verbal shoeings when necessary.

 

[aguero93:20]

Pity that isn’t applied to the rhetoric of inevitable meltdown if we leave ;-)

I think it's fair to say trade will slow if you put barriers up to it and difficulties will arise when you exit every sphere of cooperation. It might not be inevitable but when you're looking at 99.99999% chances...

 

[blueinsa]

I think it's fair to say trade will slow if you put barriers up to it and difficulties will arise when you exit every sphere of cooperation. It might not be inevitable but when you're looking at 99.99999% chances...

Yes because only countries in the EU are able to trade............