Another new Brexit thread

[blueinsa]

To this Prime Minister and this Cabinet most definitely. After all it’s one of the criteria used to decide if you have a job in the cabinet or not. When our Govt start appointing people based on faith or the ‘correct way of thinking’, including public disavowal of previous beliefs (Rudd, Hancock), rather than competence, talent or the ability to point out reality, then we are on the road to ruin.

Labour gains power and wants to implement its manifesto promise of the re-nationalisation of the railways and utilities etc and half the cabinet says they are not really in favour.

What do you think will happen to those cabinet members?

What do you think will be said to those in society that dont agree with it?

Come on Bob you are better than this mate.

 

[Metal Biker]

It was a cheap side point but one that needed to be made nevertheless.

No, the point is whatever our terms are, it has to be the same at every port, land border, airport. There is no getting around this.

Most Favoured Nation has many grey areas but if we were to clearly offer Ireland/the EU preferential treatment, Nigeria, for example, could have our bollocks in court.

As I’ve said in my last post to Blueinsa, this won’t be what Brexit looks like.

The likelihood is that NI will have different customs than the UK, if this is the route we go down.

This won’t sit favourably with the DUP and will bring down the Government, which Boris will be obviously very keen to avoid.

No it didn't, there was absolutely no reason to mention it and expose how little you empathise with the reasons why people are critical of the EU.

This is from the WTO themselves; they don't know how MFN applies in this instance because it's never come up before. Some say it will, others say it won't and the WTO is saying they have no idea. You're arguing from a position that it most definitely will, and that's inaccurate.

 

[blueinsa]

Yeah. Goose equals the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom. Gander is some bod on Twitter with a fucking hashtag.

Is there a particular pronoun you would like to be identified by from now on? ;-)

 

[Saddleworth2]

Yes, they are. Every Republican is in favour of it as the best of a bad lot and the moderate Unionists are in favour as it preserves the (more) peaceful status quo and the all island economy that's developed over the last 20 years. You want a moderate unionist view talk to @AlexWilliamsGloves about it. They want as little change as possible to their lives. Putting a border in the Irish Sea effects very few, mostly those in import and export, who are all in favour of it as they don't want their supply chains disrupted and checks already happen between Ireland (all of it) and Britain. They'll have a bit more paperwork and that's it, there's already a geographical border, there's already shared territory, there's already regulatory differences between NI and Britain, there's already passport checks between NI and Britain. The only difference with the NI only version of the backstop is that the signs at airports and seaports that read EU Citizens and International would read CTA Citizens and International on your side and EU/UK Citizens and International on ours.

Then you have the human and economic cost of a 500 mile land border in rural Ireland.
Think about it.
In fact, since this is so important to you, visit, drive the border roads, speak to the people there.

I'll be doing just that next week mate on my 'tour of Ireland'. Belfast - Kilkenny - Cork - Killarney - Dingle - Spanish Point - Westport - Leitrim Village and Carrick on Shannon - Belfast. Will I be welcome as a (scottish) Brit do you think? My wife is 100% Irish 2 generations back - unfortunately one generation too little for an Irish/EU passport!

 

[Ban-jani]

We haven't asked for nor published 100% zero tariff rates.

We only need to fairly apply the tariffs yes to everyone?

Yes and these will be different to what we currently have and therefore will need to be checked on our borders.

 

[BobKowalski]

All in here for those that want to go through it.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/temporary-tariff-regime-for-no-deal-brexit-published

And this is why the U.K./Canada talks ended. Why negotiate a preferential trade deal when you are inviting everyone in free of charge?

Canada: So we give you these preferential access areas if you give us these areas of preferential access.
U.K.: No problem. Where do we sign?
Canada : Great we have a deal.
U.K. : Oh just to let you know we are letting everyone else have preferential access across the board but it’s only temporary.
Canada: That’s nice. Tell you what let’s forget this deal for now and maybe get back to us when you’ve figured this shit out?

 

[blueinsa]

Yes and these will be different to what we currently have and therefore will need to be checked on our borders.

Tariffs checked at the border?

How do you check a tariff at a border?

Its all done electronically mate.

Paperwork for shipments are filed electronically and before shipment and then customs checks randomly and off the back of intelligence as and when it feels fit.

 

[Ban-jani]

No it didn't, there was absolutely no reason to mention it and expose how little you empathise with the reasons why people are critical of the EU.

This is from the WTO themselves; they don't know how MFN applies in this instance because it's never come up before. Some say it will, others say it won't and the WTO is saying they have no idea. You're arguing from a position that it most definitely will, and that's inaccurate.

Oh behave, the empathy on why people voted Remain is hardly offered in return. Snarky remarks are far too often dished out from Leavers on here. I’ve said that I’m willing to back a proposal to leave, as long as it isn’t without a deal and as long as we can sort this most crucial border issue.

Because nobody has been foolish enough to do it before, that’s why. And let’s just say it is unclear, let’s just say you have that point, why would we run the risk? How stupid would we be to risk Most Favoured Nation, considering if we were to lose the legal process, what that would potentially mean?

It is fairly clear to me if we’re operating a zero tariff and open border with Ireland, we’d be challenged.

Do you have any content on where you’re getting that from? I should like to read it.

 

[Metal Biker]

Tariffs checked at the border?

How do you check a tariff at a border?

Its all done electronically mate.

Paperwork for shipments are filed electronically and before shipment and then customs checks randomly and off the back of intelligence as and when it feels fit.

 

[aguero93:20]

All in here for those that want to go through it.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/temporary-tariff-regime-for-no-deal-brexit-published

Tax cuts for the rich while the working class make up the loss in tariffs on everyday imports.

Wait and see. That and avoiding the new EU laws on tax havens are all this has ever been about for the people behind it.

 

[aguero93:20]

I'll be doing just that next week mate on my 'tour of Ireland'. Belfast - Kilkenny - Cork - Killarney - Dingle - Spanish Point - Westport - Leitrim Village and Carrick on Shannon - Belfast. Will I be welcome as a (scottish) Brit do you think? My wife is 100% Irish 2 generations back - unfortunately one generation too little for an Irish/EU passport!

Scots are always welcome. Give me a shout when you're in Killarney, I'll buy you a pint.

 

[Metal Biker]

Oh behave, the empathy on why people voted Remain is hardly offered in return. Snarky remarks are far too often dished out from Leavers on here. I’ve said that I’m willing to back a proposal to leave, as long as it isn’t without a deal and as long as we can sort this most crucial border issue.

Because nobody has been foolish enough to do it before, that’s why. And let’s just say it is unclear, let’s just say you have that point, why would we run the risk? How stupid would we be to risk Most Favoured Nation, considering if we were to lose the legal process, what that would potentially mean?

It is fairly clear to me if we’re operating a zero tariff and open border with Ireland, we’d be challenged.

Do you have any content on where you’re getting that from? I should like to read it.

I've not made any snarky remarks to you today, you chose to make the first one when there was no need. Nothing more to be said.

We wouldn't run the risk, because there isn't one, not under current WTO rules. Can you list the number of nations that have said that they will sue the UK?

 

[blueparrot]

I'll be doing just that next week mate on my 'tour of Ireland'. Belfast - Kilkenny - Cork - Killarney - Dingle - Spanish Point - Westport - Leitrim Village and Carrick on Shannon - Belfast. Will I be welcome as a (scottish) Brit do you think? My wife is 100% Irish 2 generations back - unfortunately one generation too little for an Irish/EU passport!

More than welcome as me and family were last autumn. In fact speaking to the Northern Irish people most anger seemed to be with their own politician for getting paid and being incapable of forming a government, while propping up the tories. They are though extremely worried about the border issue from an economic and social / family point of view. Not to mention a security pov as you'll see travelling about and visiting the various parts of Belfast including the 'peace' wall it isn't far below the surface.

 

[BobKowalski]

Labour gains power and wants to implement its manifesto promise of the re-nationalisation of the railways and utilities etc and half the cabinet says they are not really in favour.

What do you think will happen to those cabinet members?

What do you think will be said to those in society that dont agree with it?

Come on Bob you are better than this mate.

If it’s Labour Party policy they will have signed up for it. But then Corbyn says ok we all signed up for it and I now intend to nationalise without compensation to owners and shareholders. Some cabinet are not happy with this as it didn’t get mentioned during the election or in the manifesto. They object and get sacked. Other who object now pledge fealty to the new position as Corbyn declares nationalisation ‘no matter the cost’ is ‘the will of the people’ and to betray it is to ‘betray the people’.

Leave campaign asked people to vote based on a deal being obtained. Now we have had a GE of 130,000 party members and ‘no deal’ is official policy and the will of the people and Brexiteers like Fox who understands the problems are sacked for ‘lack of belief in Brexit’ and to get a seat in cabinet you have to take a pledge to Brexit.

This is faith based shit with no acknowledgement of reality and for which there is no mandate either in 2016 or in 2017.

 

[lancs blue]

Labour gains power and wants to implement its manifesto promise of the re-nationalisation of the railways and utilities etc and half the cabinet says they are not really in favour.

What do you think will happen to those cabinet members?

What do you think will be said to those in society that dont agree with it?

Come on Bob you are better than this mate.

There's nothing wrong in having different views inside the cabinet, all Johnson has done is appoint a load of nodding dogs. Thatcher expected total loyalty from her cabinet once policies had been agreed but for all she was dogmatic and stubborn she allowed plenty of varied views to be expressed in the cabinet debates that formed those policies - that's why she had more moderate Tories like Clarke and Heseltine in there. Johnson's cabinet meetings will just be a gathering of closed minds.

 

[Ban-jani]

Tariffs checked at the border?

How do you check a tariff at a border?

Its all done electronically mate.

Paperwork for shipments are filed electronically and before shipment and then customs checks randomly and off the back of intelligence as and when it feels fit.

I’ve travelled across a border many times, you do not need to tell me.

I wasn’t talking about checking tariffs on the border.

Changes are inevitable though, even if you align your customs to exact same terms, or as close as, as Norway and Switzerland have done, there’s still friction.

 

[Ban-jani]

I've not made any snarky remarks to you today, you chose to make the first one when there was no need. Nothing more to be said.

We wouldn't run the risk, because there isn't one, not under current WTO rules. Can you list the number of nations that have said that they will sue the UK?

You’ve just said WTO don’t know what would happen, if they don’t know that says to me there is a risk and just reading through Most Favoured Nation makes it clear the risk is very much in existence.

Why would countries, who are presumably trying to do trade deals with the UK, come out and threaten to sue us, before we’ve even signed a Withdrawal Agreement and started the process of leaving?

The legal challenge will come when our agreement with such nation is lesser than that of another one, we’re years away from that.

 

[Metal Biker]

You’ve just said WTO don’t know what would happen, if they don’t know that says to me there is a risk and just reading through Most Favoured Nation makes it clear the risk is very much in existence.

Why would countries, who are presumably trying to do trade deals with the UK, come out and threaten to sue us, before we’ve even signed a Withdrawal Agreement and started the process of leaving?

The legal challenge will come when our agreement with such nation is lesser than that of another one, we’re years away from that.

Name country that has threatened to sue.

 

[aguero93:20]

Name country that has threatened to sue.

How are they supposed to do that when no trade deals are signed and no tariff system put in place? You're in limbo at the minute, that's like me going next door and telling my neighbour I'll sue if he ever assaults me.

 

[BobKowalski]

Is there a particular pronoun you would like to be identified by from now on? ;-)

An amalgamation of Goose and Gander. ‘God’ suits me best.