Another new Brexit thread

[west didsblue]

Not just loyalists...unionists as a whole, and id include nationalists too...

Isn't loyalist just another name for unionist?
If not, what's the difference?

 

[blueparrot]

Not just the DUP...nationalists too

Yes, but I was thinking about the governments crutch in parliament if the DUP kick that away they are stuffed.

 

[AlexWilliamsGloves]

Lots of things I want and don't want

There will undoubtedly have to be some changes to existing arrangements

With good will and good faith these would have been minimal - unfortunately that is not what has happened

The issue has been weapon used by the EU, supported by Varadkar and Robbins and May were gullible and incompetent

Now minimal changes will be made out to be of huge significance and - should there be a flare up of the troubles - the EU and Varadkar will be largely responsible IMO

Majority of people here voted to remain...so to appease the will of the people, we shouldnt have to be thrust back into the troubles. the border is not being weaponised (great pun)....its not some wee inconvenience we should just put up with for your sake

 

[AlexWilliamsGloves]

Isn't loyalist just another name for unionist?
If not, what's the difference?

in simple terms, a loyalist would be more along the lines of those nutters you so wonderfully described....lets just say a bit more "fundamental". A unionist is merely someone who supports maintaining the Union with Britain

 

[Fred_Quimby]

Majority of people here voted to remain...so to appease the will of the people, we shouldnt have to be thrust back into the troubles. the border is not being weaponised (great pun)....its not some wee inconvenience we should just put up with for your sake

Is there any talk over there of a unified Ireland?? As the majority voted remain I wondered if this position had gained any mileage amongst the Unionists?

 

[AlexWilliamsGloves]

Is there any talk over there of a unified Ireland?? As the majority voted remain I wondered if this position had gained any mileage amongst the Unionists?

theres talk, although id say its more opportunism. Whilst the majority here voted to remain...imo, we voted for the UK (including us) to remain in Europe....not NI/RoI.

I come from a unionist background, a military one at that, but im not "against" the idea of a united Ireland...but i still dont think there is a majority appetite for it....its close, very close.

Brexit WILL affect opinions

 

[Fred_Quimby]

theres talk, although id say its more opportunism. Whilst the majority here voted to remain...imo, we voted for the UK (including us) to remain in Europe....not NI/RoI.

I come from a unionist background, a military one at that, but im not "against" the idea of a united Ireland...but i still dont think there is a majority appetite for it....its close, very close.

Brexit WILL affect opinions

Many thanks.

 

[west didsblue]

in simple terms, a loyalist would be more along the lines of those nutters you so wonderfully described....lets just say a bit more "fundamental". A unionist is merely someone who supports maintaining the Union with Britain

Ok, cheers

 

[AlexWilliamsGloves]

Many thanks.

I would also say that there is a "fear" among loyalists/unionists that Britain would rather just dump us

 

[Blue Hefner]

This is one way of looking at it........

 

[west didsblue]

Just thought I'd put this pro-leave link here:
http://leavehq.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=128
The last paragraph is interesting:

"One can say, unequivocally, that the UK could not survive as a trading nation by relying on the WTO Option. It would be an unmitigated disaster, and no responsible government should allow it. The option should be rejected."

Has anyone told Boris?

 

[hgblue]

I think the respective positions have been occupied and they are both digging in, awaiting the next significant engagement. That will come when Johnson gets a no backstop deal voted through the HoP only to see it rejected by the EU. The No Deal battle in parliament then begins in earnest with the consequences which have already been speculated on at length in here. Johnson is going for an early GE either as the victorious Brexiter or as the only party who can make it happen after the HoC has betrayed the democratic choice of the people.

Precisely. What's the point of Boris travelling to meet EU leaders? We want the backstop removed and they won't remove it.

 

[Ban-jani]

Just thought I'd put this pro-leave link here:
http://leavehq.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=128
The last paragraph is interesting:

"One can say, unequivocally, that the UK could not survive as a trading nation by relying on the WTO Option. It would be an unmitigated disaster, and no responsible government should allow it. The option should be rejected."

Has anyone told Boris?

I don’t think many realise how serious this situation is.

 

[west didsblue]

I don’t think many realise how serious this situation is.

Many do, but far too many don't.

 

[Fred_Quimby]

I don’t think many realise how serious this situation is.

I think they do but still don’t give a sh1t.

 

[Mon Autre]

This is one way of looking at it........

Stuff like this makes you realise that however bad things could get in the event of a no deal Brexit, the hard leavers will still find a way to pin the disaster on people who voted remain. I used to wonder what these people will make of things when it all goes tits up but they'll just keep blaming everyone else no matter what. Given they're going to kick off and blame everyone else for their problems indefinitely from now on, we may as well stop trying to placate them and revoke article 50 right now.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Fair question, I think its highly possible that Wales Scotland and Northern Ireland may reach a point where things are so bad that they consider going it alone and going for full independence, therefore attempting to take as much control of their own destiny as they can. Why wouldnt they?

I personally doubt it would make any difference and think that by and large they are pretty much stuck with the same lot as England. I think the EU is doomed to failure and so running to the EU as newly independent countries is unlikely to improve things in my view.

Fair question, I think its highly possible that Wales Scotland and Northern Ireland may reach a point where things are so bad that they consider going it alone and going for full independence, therefore attempting to take as much control of their own destiny as they can. Why wouldnt they?

I personally doubt it would make any difference and think that by and large they are pretty much stuck with the same lot as England. I think the EU is doomed to failure and so running to the EU as newly independent countries is unlikely to improve things in my view.

cant agree mate. I think if we leave with no deal, Scottish independence will happen within 3 years. Scots will be back in the EU within 5 years and will manage ok.

 

[hilts]

UK Conservatives will be implementing their usual mantra of ' Cut taxes for the Rich because they don't earn enough / Cut welfare for the poor because they earn too much'

Nice to see people still literally making shit up on here

 

[BobKowalski]

Precisely. What's the point of Boris travelling to meet EU leaders? We want the backstop removed and they won't remove it.

And according to the ERG ultras, Raab et al removing the backstop may not be sufficient for a deal so what exactly is the UK proposal to facilitate a deal and negate the need for a backstop? Would it not make sense to communicate and discuss this face to with E27 leaders? Or is sulking at home and refusing to talk the way we do business now?

We need more other than ‘give me what I want or I’ll scream and scream until I’m sick’

 

[hilts]

Been away from the thread for a while, so interested in what people think will happen from here? FWIW, here's my take.

1. The EU is not going to suddenly "cave in" and offer a radically new deal, nor one that doesn't contain an NI backstop.
2. Johnson will not be able to get a "no deal" Brexit vote through parliament, and although the default is that we leave on 31st October, MP's would when it comes to it, table a motion to change that.
3. Johnson will not be able to prorogue parliament, since such a move would IMO be blocked by judicial review.
4. If we fail to leave on Oct 29, Johnson's prime ministerial career ends in November.

Johnson will over the coming weeks, realise the inevitability of 1 to 3, resulting in consequence 4.

So he will go begging to the EU for some crumb of compromise which he will then try to sell as being a huge breakthrough. Probably some minor change to the backstop terms. He will portray this as being the strategy all along, and that his outwardly hard line was merely a negotiating position in order for him to achieve this wonderful and huge concession.

The "new" deal will be put to parliament in late October, and MPs weary of the whole thing and seeing no other way out will narrowly approve it. And we'll leave on 31st October with a deal, which is essence identical to the one Theresa May failed to get through 3 times.

I actually think this is his strategy, In fact it was the strategy for 3 years but idiotic/devious remainers fucked it up. I expect him to fail and as previously stated become one of the shortest serving PM’s in history.