Another new Brexit thread

[Blue Hefner]

Awaiting 'balance' from the usual suspects.

It really is sad the lengths that people will go to avoid admitting that they have been duped.

We get 'our' fish back, though.....

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

But it's fine for the Irish and the EU to jeopardise the GFA by trying to force a separation of the North from the UK via a different political and economic status. Sinn Fein now demanding a new unity referendum and Mary Lou McDonald insulting and threatening the UK as I type, if Johnson goes ahead with Brexit after meeting them he does so 'with his eyes wide open' as to the consequences for peace.

I find it difficult to understand that Brexiteers want to 'Regain control of our borders' other than the one between Northern Ireland and Eire.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Then it'll be the public's choice to decide if that is what they want, isn't it.

Facts are that the ECHR has nothing to do with the UK leaving or staying in the EU. The EU forces it's members to adhere to ECHR rules in order to become a member, non-EU members have the choice to adhere to them or not.

Bit naive to think the Tories would give Joe Public a vote on wether we remain signed up to the ECHR.

 

[AlexWilliamsGloves]

Well at the moment your political representation of Northern Ireland on Brexit is is the dup in Westminster and I am sure they don’t represent the full spectrum of views on Northern Ireland

I think getting stormont up and running at this time would give some focus and bring some sensible debate and hopefully northern Irish interests are represented on all sides and a political voice . Like the Scottish parlaiment does .

I imagine being directly ruled from England isn’t great at this delicate time

TBF, you're right...yes it would help....but the DUP and Sinn Fein are both hateful cnuts...sensible debate is wishful thinking

 

[smudgedj]

LOL ........ another Daily Mail reader outed

Wikipedia actually.
The horse meat scandal is backed up with facts

Your mention of the great Daily Mail is just a convenient way to dismiss an argument you disagree with without actually having to refute it.

Try harder.

 

[Metal Biker]

Bit naive to think the Tories would give Joe Public a vote on wether we remain signed up to the ECHR.

It's called a General Election. The Tories would be out.

Bit naive to think Labour wouldn't take us back into the ECHR.

 

[AlexWilliamsGloves]

I find it difficult to understand that Brexiteers want to 'Regain control of our borders' other than the one between Northern Ireland and Eire.

FYI, noone says Eire.....

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Wikipedia actually.
The horse meat scandal is backed up with facts

Your mention of the great Daily Mail is just a convenient way to dismiss an argument you disagree with without actually having to refute it.

Try harder.

Im not denying that the horse meat fraud happened.... and the reference to the Daily Fail was your insinuation that the Eu were responsible for it ...... which is exactly what the Fail would print..... fraud happens in our country as well.

 

[Ban-jani]

We get 'our' fish back, though.....

Ahh yes that one that Farage and the other cretins like Johnson banged on and on and on about despite it only making up a massive 0.12% of our GDP.

Thank fuck for that.

 

[Metal Biker]

Ahh yes that one that Farage and the other cretins like Johnson banged on and on and on about despite it only making up a massive 0.12% of our GDP.

Thank fuck for that.

And what about the jobs the industry supports? Their families who rely on the industry, their complaints and concerns that were being ignored?

But no, it's all about the money.

 

[blueparrot]

We get 'our' fish back, though.....

But lose the market we sell it into.

 

[Metal Biker]

But lose the market we sell it into.

We'll still be selling fish to Europe.

Are you suggesting we won't?

 

[Rascal]

Sounds rather like Churchill.

I know, but it is big bad Trotsky.

Although I am certain the context of the quote would mean a Socialist Europe, which I would support wholeheartedly.

 

[blueparrot]

We'll still be selling fish to Europe.

Are you suggesting we won't?

Not if there are delays or tariffs getting fresh seafood to European markets.

 

[Metal Biker]

Not if there are delays or tariffs getting fresh seafood to European markets.

And where will Europe get it's fish from in return?

 

[inbetween]

That is a tad harsh, you underestimate the investment people make in casting a vote on a substantive issue. It is psychologically difficult to accept you may have been wrong when you do invest so much into a cause regardless of the outcome. If a person truly believes that they are acting in the best interests of the nation, then calling them stupid and blindly loyal will only entrench their view that they were right in the first place.

I do not believe that people who voted leave or remain are stupid, delusional or blindly loyal they simply want what they have been led to believe is in there own particular best interests and in the best interests of the nation. I truly think there are noble and honourable people on both sides of the divide who genuinely want what is best for everyone, the problem has been the divisive and poisonous nature of the debate, its influencing from outside vested interests and a small but influential vocal cabal of lunatics.

I think much of leave is about misplaced nationalism and patriotism. The only thing the hard leavers in my office mention is how to stick it up Merkel/Macron/Juncker/*Insert EU politician here*.

They are fundamentally not interested in the detail which is why the remain side putting forward arguments on economics and the details of the Irish border is stupid. This reaction completely misunderstands why people voted to leave.

The only reason people fear a border in NI/Ireland is because of its history of anti-British terrorism. Arguing to remain on the basis of fear of that terrorism certainly won't appease the patriotic or nationalistic.

The only way remain can win this argument and reconcile leavers is to paste a positive light on our existing membership of the EU, and I don't mean any future where we become a more integrated part of it.

Some on here want us to remain and I am one of them. The problem and where I disagree with some remainers is they argue to remain on economics but then let slip another goal which is the ultra remain united Europe....

The EU Parliament is currently majority controlled by left leaning social democratics who largely believe in a united Europe. It is therefore obvious why people fear relinquishing control to these people by us remaining. Has remain helped alleviate their fears though? Nope, all remain has done is attacked the idea of leaving and that isn't enough.

 

[Blue Hefner]

But lose the market we sell it into.

Is that one of those ‘swings and roundabouts’?

 

[Ban-jani]

And what about the jobs the industry supports? Their families who rely on the industry, their complaints and concerns that were being ignored?

But no, it's all about the money.

Honestly... sigh

What about them?

The jobs are already there, no one is losing their job in the fishing sector by maintaining status quo and by the way, the amount of money in the industry does dictate and improve the lives of those working in the industry.

 

[Metal Biker]

Honestly... sigh

What about them?

The jobs are already there, no one is losing their job in the fishing sector by maintaining status quo and by the way, the amount of money in the industry does dictate and improve the lives of those working in the industry.

Then you've paid no attention to them these past 4 years.

A humble sacrifice for remainers. Assauge their fears, assauge leavers fears, assauge leavers criticisms, and we'll likely get on board with the idea of remaining. But as Inbetween just mentioned, remainers haven't done this.

 

[Rascal]

We get 'our' fish back, though.....

What happens if "our" fish decide they like the water in the EU and swim over there. Then we have no fish.

Crafty fuckers them fish types, they want their plankton and eat it.