"The PM, the leave campaign, in fact virtually everyone, said 'No deal is better than a bad deal,'"
Unless you can point to any of them saying that before the referendum, you're lying.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Another new Brexit thread
- Thread starter Ric
- Start date
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
Unless you can point to any of them saying that before the referendum, you're lying.
I think it's not quite what he said but I've heard Michel Barnier once said that the UK would have got a better deal if he'd been negotiating with himself."We have been offered a bad deal" ?
"We" (i.e. the British Government) actually suggested and agreed the deal!
Blue Hefner
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 11 Jul 2009
- Messages
- 15,433
"The PM, the leave campaign, in fact virtually everyone, said 'No deal is better than a bad deal,'"
Unless you can point to any of them saying that before the referendum, you're lying.
It was never said before the referendum. The idea we would get a ‘bad deal’ was never up for debate, it was dismissed as ‘project fear’. Remember Obama talking about ‘back of the queue’? As it turns out he’s right but at the time he was all but told not to be so fucking stupid and butt out
No need for the backstop under that.I agree with this as the best of a bad job. Would it get thru the house? Boris would need to convince his looney fringe that this was a step on the way to what they want.. (The backstop would remain, of course, for now). EU "no more negotiation" stance might scupper it too.
And they were already promising the money "saved" to the farmers and the places that voted Leave (Wales, Cornwall) who then demanded to keep the EU money they got.as you know, the figure that was quoted bears no relation to reality so was just an outright lie. If your ok with that then its your conscience. The £19bn when rebate and monies received back from the EU for both private and public sectors is around £6.5bn which would still be a large number but of course doesn't reflect the financial benefits membership of the EU brings to the UK. Who cares that the bus was a deliberate lie and aimed at misleading the voting population.
Ifwecouldjust.......
Well-Known Member
As I said, a very simple choice. You, along with many others, who lost the vote, have retrospectively decided to analyse
the reasons why the leave campaign won, citing perceived false promises in the run up campaign.
This is then used as some sort of justification for the ongoing narrative for another referendum, or scrapping
it entirely. This, whichever way you paint it, is simply sour grapes, the negative campaign from remain didn't
sway leavers did it?
The PM, the leave campaign, in fact virtually everyone, said 'No deal is better than a bad deal,' so going
by your assumptions that we were all influenced, why isn't this one accepted? We have been offered
a bad deal, everyone voted against it, so, unless the EU amend/scrap the part which makes it so bad,
we have to invoke the alternative. As we were told, hundreds of times.
All the Eu have done is agree to what was offered to them by the UK Government. Unfortunately May and her cronies made the usual mistakes of consulting / involving and failing to bring Parliament along with them.
This is not the Eu's fault.
Saddleworth2
Well-Known Member
absolutely correct. But we could still spend £19bn on the NHS couldn't we? How I do miss the sunny uplands.And they were already promising the money "saved" to the farmers and the places that voted Leave (Wales, Cornwall) who then demanded to keep the EU money they got.
Saddleworth2
Well-Known Member
The voting populace did not vote for a 'no deal' brexit. That is a simple truth that is blithely overlooked. We now have a PM who is stating this morning that even if he loses a vote of no confidence, he will still ensure a no deal brexit. I don't remember any mention of that on the side of his bus.Sometimes the truth of things is indeed just so simple - and inconvenient
Metal Biker
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 3 Jul 2009
- Messages
- 22,532
- Team supported
- Manchester City (and McLaren F1)
It didn't vote to remain either.The voting populace did not vote for a 'no deal' brexit. That is a simple truth that is blithely overlooked. We now have a PM who is stating this morning that even if he loses a vote of no confidence, he will still ensure a no deal brexit. I don't remember any mention of that on the side of his bus.
It didn't vote to remain either.
It didn’t so let’s leave with a deal hey?
Our incompetent representatives - probably steered by the EU's professional negotiators - simply demonstrated their incompetence"We have been offered a bad deal" ?
"We" (i.e. the British Government) actually suggested and agreed the deal!
Does not detract from the simple fact that the deal offered represents a bad deal - and indeed No-Deal is far better than that deal with the backstop in its unfettered state
Last edited:
west didsblue
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 2 Oct 2011
- Messages
- 33,977
It clearly isn't.Our incompetent representatives - probably steered by the EU's professional negotiators - simply demonstrated their incompetence
Does not detract from the simple fact that the deal offered represented a bad deal - and indeed No-Deal is far better than that deal with the backstop in its unfettered state
To anyone capable of objective analysis that is.
If they had just inserted the word 'Gross' in front of the number would you have been happy?as you know, the figure that was quoted bears no relation to reality so was just an outright lie. If your ok with that then its your conscience. The £19bn when rebate and monies received back from the EU for both private and public sectors is around £6.5bn which would still be a large number but of course doesn't reflect the financial benefits membership of the EU brings to the UK. Who cares that the bus was a deliberate lie and aimed at misleading the voting population.
Metal Biker
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 3 Jul 2009
- Messages
- 22,532
- Team supported
- Manchester City (and McLaren F1)
Indeed.It didn’t so let’s leave with a deal hey?
Absolutely incorrect - perhaps you should apologise for the aspersion?"The PM, the leave campaign, in fact virtually everyone, said 'No deal is better than a bad deal,'"
Unless you can point to any of them saying that before the referendum, you're lying.
The mandate arising from the referendum and following the campaigns was to Leave - that 'remains' the only valid mandate
AC is 100% correct to point out that May and so many others, when seeking to act on the implementation of the mandate sensibly emphasised that No-Deal is better than a bad deal.
The only question is the timing of the statement - it was a common view following the referendum - and that is the substantive point being made.
She was spot-on - rare for her - in that assessment and what has been brought forward is indeed a very bad deal for the UK and No-Deal would be less harmful
It is a simple truism
Indeed.
No deal must be avoided now at all costs. It’s a massive waste of time and money and will likely ensure constitutional and social crisis.
Glad to see you supporting my assertions with regard the competence of Robbins and MayI think it's not quite what he said but I've heard Michel Barnier once said that the UK would have got a better deal if he'd been negotiating with himself.
They voted to Leave - that is the only valid mandateThe voting populace did not vote for a 'no deal' brexit. That is a simple truth that is blithely overlooked. We now have a PM who is stating this morning that even if he loses a vote of no confidence, he will still ensure a no deal brexit. I don't remember any mention of that on the side of his bus.
Any subsequent deal or No-Deal is simply a consequence of how the negotiations went/go
It really is that simple and the Remainers just refuse to accept that simple truism
Last edited:
Metal Biker
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 3 Jul 2009
- Messages
- 22,532
- Team supported
- Manchester City (and McLaren F1)
Correct.No deal must be avoided now at all costs. It’s a massive waste of time and money and will likely ensure constitutional and social crisis.
But choosing remain as an option will also create the latter, which is why the narrative of remain must change to one backing the WA.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.