Var debate 2019/20

My main issue with VAR is the joy of spontaneous celebration is hugely diluted...and that is the WHOLE point of going to a match. Without that, football is more like a pantomime where you are told when and how to interact.

So VAR as it currently exists hugely diminishes what is most enjoyable about football. When VAR can indicate to ref within 2 seconds whether it should be disallowed or not, then it can/should be introduced.
 
Damocles said:
W4FFlBS.jpg
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The more I look at the picture the further the lines look from being parallel to the 18-yard line
 
Ennis said:
Remember that that the linesman have been told to keep the flag down and let VAR decide if it was offside or not unless they are 100% sure it’s offside. We will have loads of goals ruled ut this year for this. Think how many times Jesus or Sterling have been flagged offside for goal scoring opportunities in the past that will now be left for VAR if it’s a goal. No point celebrating.
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This is an important point. We have no way of knowing if the linesman would have flagged without VAR.
 
dublinblue12 said:
Pretty sure the lines we see are added by the broadcasters, not seeing what the actual tech that is used shows
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Thats what Walton said today, and he also said the technology is very accurate, so its not down to the eyes on a screen, its technology. What needs to happen is for PGMOL and/or the PL demonstrate how that technology to the public, and explain how it can be so accurate, they do that, and will take away much of the scepticism and myth, also a minor change in the law, to something along the lines that if any part of the attacker is onside then the goal stands, thereby giving the advantage back to the attacker.
 
mat said:
It would have been disallowed and brought back for Mario to take the penalty...
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No communal spontaneous celebrations for something like that anymore. And it might have been brought back for the Lescott nudge at the throw-in which might have been ruled a foul. Christ knows where this will end.
 
jollylescott said:
I thought the keeper was off the line and initially thought that was the reason for the re-take, but from what they were saying on my coverage the keeper off the line will not be subject to a VAR decision.
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There was dispensation that VAR would not be used for the keeper on the goalline part way through the women's World Cup.

I think the FA/PL (whichever, it's the English authorities) decided that It would be judged visually - his back foot looks a matter of inches off it for the saved attempt.
 
Pingu the Penguin said:
Interesting video from fifa about virtual offside lines. Independent testing of it. I looked it up to see how transparent they’d be re margin of error. Unfortunately they make no reference to that at all which is disappointing.



Then a really interesting thread in a refs forum
https://www.refchat.co.uk/threads/var-wobbly-lines.11773/

A comment caught my eye (quote below). A two in three chance that the tech can’t capture the moment the ball is kicked which is integral to the rest of the tech working.

So, on the tight calls, it is twice as likely than not that the call is wrong. Remember these are calls that are supposed to be objective and so no clear and obvious filter. Completely wrong.

Improving football?

“One more thing I am not satisfied with is the frame they check offside with. If correct technology is not used it could have a big impact on the correctness of the decision in tight calls. Basically if dedicated technology is not used, VAR decision can be just as inaccurate as an AR on tight calls because the frame used for the decision is not the exact moment offside should be decided but the closest frame available to it.

Bear with me for a bit of maths here if you want proof.

The standard camera/playback frame rate is 24 or 30 fps. At the better frame rate there is 1/30th of a second between the two frames that a VAR can look at the incident.

At elite level the top speed of footballers is about 40km/h. If an attacker is running towards the goal and the second last defender in the opposite direction to put him offside, its not uncommon to have a relative speed of more than 50km/h. This means the relative movement between the two frames (1/30 of second) is 46cm. This is a large gap. There is no way VAR can make a definitive decision based on that.

Another way of looking at it is the length of time the ball is in contact with a foot at a kick is just over 0.01 seconds (yes i did a bit of research for this). This means there is a two in three chance no frame actually catches any contact with the ball in a kick”
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I had thought that myself and the calculations you’ve done prove that the implementation of VAR cannot be correct. If there is a maximum error of 46cm, the chances are that a typical error is going to be around 10-20cm. Unless they change the cameras so that the frame rate is increased 100 times, there’s always going to be errors with tight calls.
 
Don’t know if it’s been posted,but the retaken pen was for encroachment I think by rice,the keeper staying on his line if I remember was not brought in by the premier league which caused controversy at the women’s World Cup ...
 
Pingu the Penguin said:
Interesting video from fifa about virtual offside lines. Independent testing of it. I looked it up to see how transparent they’d be re margin of error. Unfortunately they make no reference to that at all which is disappointing.



Then a really interesting thread in a refs forum
https://www.refchat.co.uk/threads/var-wobbly-lines.11773/

A comment caught my eye (quote below). A two in three chance that the tech can’t capture the moment the ball is kicked which is integral to the rest of the tech working.

So, on the tight calls, it is twice as likely than not that the call is wrong. Remember these are calls that are supposed to be objective and so no clear and obvious filter. Completely wrong.

Improving football?

“One more thing I am not satisfied with is the frame they check offside with. If correct technology is not used it could have a big impact on the correctness of the decision in tight calls. Basically if dedicated technology is not used, VAR decision can be just as inaccurate as an AR on tight calls because the frame used for the decision is not the exact moment offside should be decided but the closest frame available to it.

Bear with me for a bit of maths here if you want proof.

The standard camera/playback frame rate is 24 or 30 fps. At the better frame rate there is 1/30th of a second between the two frames that a VAR can look at the incident.

At elite level the top speed of footballers is about 40km/h. If an attacker is running towards the goal and the second last defender in the opposite direction to put him offside, its not uncommon to have a relative speed of more than 50km/h. This means the relative movement between the two frames (1/30 of second) is 46cm. This is a large gap. There is no way VAR can make a definitive decision based on that.

Another way of looking at it is the length of time the ball is in contact with a foot at a kick is just over 0.01 seconds (yes i did a bit of research for this). This means there is a two in three chance no frame actually catches any contact with the ball in a kick”
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Put micro chip on players top and inside the ball . Have two small cameras on each sides remotely controlled by those chips running with the last player up and down the field .
 
Ennis said:
Remember that that the linesman have been told to keep the flag down and let VAR decide if it was offside or not unless they are 100% sure it’s offside. We will have loads of goals ruled ut this year for this. Think how many times Jesus or Sterling have been flagged offside for goal scoring opportunities in the past that will now be left for VAR if it’s a goal. No point celebrating.
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Not in the premier league they haven't. In other countries they have , in the P/L they have been told to put it up as normal and the referee decides whether to blow or let the player score and check it. So in the p/l league players have to ignore the flag and only stop if the ref whistles.
 
deano ou812 said:
Don’t know if it’s been posted,but the retaken pen was for encroachment I think by rice,the keeper staying on his line if I remember was not brought in by the premier league which caused controversy at the women’s World Cup ...
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Apparently if Rice didnt touch the ball the penalty wouldn't of been retaken.
 
Abattoir Blue said:
My main issue with VAR is the joy of spontaneous celebration is hugely diluted...and that is the WHOLE point of going to a match. Without that, football is more like a pantomime where you are told when and how to interact.

So VAR as it currently exists hugely diminishes what is most enjoyable about football. When VAR can indicate to ref within 2 seconds whether it should be disallowed or not, then it can/should be introduced.
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This is the whole point. Eveyone should ask themselves if they are happy to never fully celebrate a goal 100% ever again? If thats the case its goodbye gootball grom me!
 
waspish said:
Interesting why dont they judge the ball when it just leaves the foot not contact? Like the early days of cricket reviews it will take time.
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I hate VAR but am a realist. It is here. We could really learn from cricket in these instances though. For the mm offside ones you could have “refs call” as they do with umpire calls in cricket.
 
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