Another new Brexit thread

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Ifwecouldjust....... said:
Watch what the Conservatives do .... not what they say.
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You forget, Johnson does know the damage to the country No Deal will do. He's gambling that many people just want it all to be ever and (a) many people don't realise that it will not be over, as leaving without a deal will mean years of trying to get a deal but now with every member state having a veto, (b) people blaming the aftermath of No Deal on the intransigent EU (for which he will have most of the print media on message and he's already got posters on here singing that), and (c) people will vote for a ridiculous Tory prat rather than Corbyn.
 
aguero93:20 said:
I wasn't sure on the exact figures but it was somewhere around that mark diverted last I checked (made possible through upgrades at Cork) with more to come on stream. It may well be ahead of that now. It's as easy for us to send freight through France as it is through the UK if Cork and Waterford have the required capacity and the Netherlands/ Rotterdam while being a longer sea journey has the capacity to handle everything else from Rosslaire and Dublin. We should have the customs problem sorted in 12-18 months, that leaves us with tariff and non tariff blocks on 11% of our overall exports (to the UK), which we'll only sort out by finding alternative markets and the inevitable supply chain issues with NI and UK companies which will probably be sorted by manufacturing bases and depots relocating to within the CU.
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That's great that they're sorting out the mid-term and long-term futures, but it's the here and now that's the problem and what Johnson is pinning his hopes on, in my opinion. Can Ireland afford to have x% of it's supply chain disrupted for x amount of time?
 
Ancient Citizen said:
The EU, at present are not re opening discussions, not us, them. As the 'Deal' negotiated has been rejected, by my side,
your side, in fact everyone's side, this deal is dead, so for any further negotiation to take place, the EU will have to change
stance, otherwise, we leave without one, as is written into law.
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Did you miss Johnson's pre-condition for starting talks?
 
BobKowalski said:
Yeah but the sequel wasn’t box office. This time it’s being badged as the big one and may involve mild peril.
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Often the case with the middle one , just positions the story for the big final instalment. Of course then extra installments are included to flog the dead horse.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
The EU, at present are not re opening discussions, not us, them. As the 'Deal' negotiated has been rejected, by my side,
your side, in fact everyone's side, this deal is dead, so for any further negotiation to take place, the EU will have to change
stance, otherwise, we leave without one, as is written into law.
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Yeah we went through all that on the 29th March. And we are still in the EU.

The WA that took two years to broker isn’t going to get changed in the next two and a bit months and this minority Govt has no legitimate mandate to exit with no deal and the solution is to bypass the 2017 elected Parliament? I guess sovereignty was just another lie in the Brexit lexicon.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
Because this country's parlaiment has rejected the deal, three times, they say it's that or nothing.
So nothing it is, unless they change, what alternative is there?
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That's not their problem though, is it? They negotiated in good faith. We're the dysfunctional fuck up.

Maybe there isn't an alternative, but the responsibility has to rest with us due to the slapdash way we've approached the whole thing from start to finish; an absolute fucking shambles.

From my point of view, the EU has done nothing wrong (of any substance) since the referendum vote and have conducted negotiations in a proper manner. Do you think otherwise?
 
TheRemainsOfTheDave said:
That's great that they're sorting out the mid-term and long-term futures, but it's the here and now that's the problem and what Johnson is pinning his hopes on, in my opinion. Can Ireland afford to have x% of it's supply chain disrupted for x amount of time?
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Yes. Our service economy is getting a huge boost from firms decamping from the UK, we don't have the heavy manufacturing and engineering basis you lot do with cars, aircraft etc, the EU are making plenty of funding available for the worst hit sectors, we're running at a budget surplus and our economy is growing so a slowdown is affordable. The border counties will get fucked but that's outside our control.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
That's not their problem though, is it? They negotiated in good faith. We're the dysfunctional fuck up.

Maybe there isn't an alternative, but the responsibility has to rest with us due to the slapdash way we've approached the whole thing from start to finish; an absolute fucking shambles.

From my point of view, the EU has done nothing wrong (of any substance) since the referendum vote and have conducted negotiations in a proper manner. Do you think otherwise?
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I couldn't agree more about the dysfunctional fuck up, that's down to May, and her acolytes.
However you word it though, the deal isn't acceptable, they won't re open it, we won't either, (all sides rejected it)
so there is, if they won't talk, no alternative. What is there to discuss, if they don't want to talk?
For what it's worth, I think there will be movement before 31Oct, and that an agreement will be arrived at, others
may disagree, and fair enough, but I'll stick to that belief. Other than that, it's out without one.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
That's not their problem though, is it? They negotiated in good faith. We're the dysfunctional fuck up.

Maybe there isn't an alternative, but the responsibility has to rest with us due to the slapdash way we've approached the whole thing from start to finish; an absolute fucking shambles.

From my point of view, the EU has done nothing wrong (of any substance) since the referendum vote and have conducted negotiations in a proper manner. Do you think otherwise?
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The thing is many leavers were told that we’d hold all the cards and would get the “easiest deal in history”. Now this has turned out to be a great lie, they’re lashing out because what they were so sure of is turning out to be shit. They’re not big enough to admit it was the fault of Leave.EU, Johnson, Cummings, Gove, Fox, Raab, Farage etc. So they blame those that they opposed in 2016, remain voters and the EU, the least culpable people in all of this.

The EU have merely negotiated professionally from their position of strength. We’ve flapped from our position of weakness and those that said it would prove to cause a constitutional crisis are right.
 
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Ancient Citizen said:
Because this country's parlaiment has rejected the deal, three times, they say it's that or nothing.
So nothing it is, unless they change, what alternative is there?
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Parliament has also rejected ‘no deal’ and instructed the executive to seek an extension to A50. An extension to A50 is the alternative. Frankly instead of impaling ourselves ‘heroically’ on an EU dictated deadline it would make more strategic sense to revoke A50 and try a different approach. In fairness this would mean the death of Brexit but it is currently nailed onto its perch and pining for the fjords anyway.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
That's not their problem though, is it? They negotiated in good faith. We're the dysfunctional fuck up.

Maybe there isn't an alternative, but the responsibility has to rest with us due to the slapdash way we've approached the whole thing from start to finish; an absolute fucking shambles.

From my point of view, the EU has done nothing wrong (of any substance) since the referendum vote and have conducted negotiations in a proper manner. Do you think otherwise?
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I'd agree with that. I will also suggest that the UK will have to get used to the idea of 'take it or leave it' in negotiations as the UK will potentially be weaker party in future negotiations
 
Ancient Citizen said:
I couldn't agree more about the dysfunctional fuck up, that's down to May, and her acolytes.
However you word it though, the deal isn't acceptable, they won't re open it, we won't either, (all sides rejected it)
so there is, if they won't talk, no alternative. What is there to discuss, if they don't want to talk?
For what it's worth, I think there will be movement before 31Oct, and that an agreement will be arrived at, others
may disagree, and fair enough, but I'll stick to that belief. Other than that, it's out without one.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but you appear to be accepting that the responsibility for no deal will rest with us, if it happens, which is the point I was advancing.

This could have been so different if the mechanism to leave had been built into the referendum, as it would have left none of the wriggle room, against which Leavers, quite understandably, rail.

The whole mechanism and process was flawed from the outset. That is why we find ourselves in this place and why the country will, most likely, and quite unnecessarily, now be torn apart on this issue for a generation.

A no-deal Brexit (just like failing to leave) will create a deep scar that will take at least a generation to heal. Some people are oblivious to that, but to me, that is far more important than whether we stay or remain.

Playing fast and loose with national unity is irresponsible and reckless.
 
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