Another new Brexit thread

[Metal Biker]

They've been quiet for the last 20 years as they had zero support in NI and the border counties and the Provos were sitting on them. This has created a situation where people are beginning to sympathise with them again and their babysitters are thinking about a return to violence themselves.

People are beginning to sympathise with people who would murder their fellow citizens over what, exactly?

 

[west didsblue]

People often forget this crucial element of how frustrating things have been.

Not only that but we've been prohibited from making and arranging post-brexit trade deals until we got the situation with the EU sorted first. To them it makes it look like we've not prepared for anything. No. We've been prohibited from preparing by the EU who wanted their arrangements with the UK concluded. Medicines, food imports etc could have been organised before we officially left by concluding these non-EU trade deals with other nations, but EU said no, deal with us first and then you can start making your own trade deals.

Total and utter delusion.
As said by @aguero93:20 trade deals take a long time to negotiate. We have actually got rollover deals in place covering about 6% or 7% of our trade with about 20 countries so it's not actually true that we can't discuss them. What we can't do is implement them while we're still a member of the EU. Any major player that will negotiate a deal with us will want to know our long term status with the EU before they agree anything with us, and that includes the US in spite of the bullshit coming from Trump about a trade deal on day 1.

 

[Ban-jani]

What a ridiculous post

Are you actually not following events ?

We could never get to that position once we voted to leave as the eu would not and still do not allow us to talk about a trade deal

Do you not remember the bit where the eu said we will NOT talk a trade deal with You until the withdrawal act is agreed and signed and 40 bill deposited in our account.

We may end up with Norway or customs 2.0 but unfortunately your good friends at the eu are not interested in talking about it.

Btw I hope you realise that even if we do leave with a deal , the withdrawal agreement or an amended version that still means we leave with no trade deal. There is no legally binding trade deal going forward as the eu would not allow it.

I think you’ve got a very poor understanding of what happened in the initial negotiations and why we’ve arrived at the Withdrawal Agreement.

The first meetings May, Davis and the rest of the team had were Barnier presenting a detailed graph on where we were and worked backwards with different check points explaining deals the EU has with nations around the world. For example Norway/EFTA, Canada, South Korea etc.

Barnier pretty much said we can have any of the agreements on the graph and May said we want all the trade benefits of being in the Single Market but didn’t want immigration and wanted to make our own trade deals around the world. They politely told her this is against EU regulations and we can fuck off.

Basically we want the good bits Norway have but not Freedom of Movement, which would compromise what the Single Market is and can do whatever we want. It was the cake and eat it Brexit Johnson talked about in 2016.

May and the Brexit Department also spectacularly underestimated, as many leavers continue to do, the Irish border issue with the GFA and the need for a customs arrangement that matched the EU’s.

May eventually did get it but because of her red line on immigration the only option is the backstop.

The reason she has a red line on immigration is because of the overwhelming pressure from the leave side of the argument in both parliament, the media and public on immigration.

In short, if we approached the EU now and pushed Common Market 2.0, which is practically Norway’s Agreement, they’d go for it as they offered it us on day one.

It would mean though that the xenophobes wouldn’t be appeased.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

I think it's you that's not keeping up. By insisting that leaving the EU meant leaving the SM and CU, we got ourselves into a position where Norway+ or CM2.0 aren't possible options. We have said we're open to being part of a Free Trade Zone but we're not open to following the rules of the single market - that's cakeism for you. This intransigent stance on our red lines has led to the need for the backstop that we proposed and the EU accepted. Our position is deliberately ambiguous so that our government can blame the EU when it all goes tits up.

That’s just made up.

I , leavers the uk government would have been absolutely delighted if the withdrawal agreement dealt with us leaving the eu AND legally dealt with our continuing economic arrangement. If that was Norway customs , great take your pick. Fine by me.

But the eu said no, I am not blaming the eu I am just telling you on what they insisted from the outset.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

I think you’ve got a very poor understanding of what happened in the initial negotiations and why we’ve arrived at the Withdrawal Agreement.

The first meetings May, Davis and the rest of the team had were Barnier presenting a detailed graph on where we were and worked backwards with different check points explaining deals the EU has with nations around the world. For example Norway/EFTA, Canada, South Korea etc.

Barnier pretty much said we can have any of the agreements on the graph and May said we want all the trade benefits of being in the Single Market but didn’t want immigration and wanted to make our own trade deals around the world. They politely told her this is against EU regulations and we can fuck off.

Basically we want the good bits Norway have but not Freedom of Movement, which would compromise what the Single Market is and can do whatever we want. It was the cake and eat it Brexit Johnson talked about in 2016.

May and the Brexit Department also spectacularly underestimated, as many leavers continue to do, the Irish border issue with the GFA and the need for a customs arrangement that matched the EU’s.

May eventually did get it but because of her red line on immigration the only option is the backstop.

The reason she has a red line on immigration is because of the overwhelming pressure from the leave side of the argument in both parliament, the media and public on immigration.

In short, if we approached the EU now and pushed Common Market 2.0, which is practically Norway’s Agreement, they’d go for it as they offered it us on day one.

It would mean though that the xenophobes wouldn’t be appeased.

Go get it then. Fine by me.

 

[Metal Biker]

I think you’ve got a very poor understanding of what happened in the initial negotiations and why we’ve arrived at the Withdrawal Agreement.

The first meetings May, Davis and the rest of the team had were Barnier presenting a detailed graph on where we were and worked backwards with different check points explaining deals the EU has with nations around the world. For example Norway/EFTA, Canada, South Korea etc.

Barnier pretty much said we can have any of the agreements on the graph and May said we want all the trade benefits of being in the Single Market but didn’t want immigration and wanted to make our own trade deals around the world. They politely told her this is against EU regulations and we can fuck off.

Basically we want the good bits Norway have but not Freedom of Movement, which would compromise what the Single Market is and can do whatever we want. It was the cake and eat it Brexit Johnson talked about in 2016.

May and the Brexit Department also spectacularly underestimated, as many leavers continue to do, the Irish border issue with the GFA and the need for a customs arrangement that matched the EU’s.

May eventually did get it but because of her red line on immigration the only option is the backstop.

The reason she has a red line on immigration is because of the overwhelming pressure from the leave side of the argument in both parliament, the media and public on immigration.

In short, if we approached the EU now and pushed Common Market 2.0, which is practically Norway’s Agreement, they’d go for it as they offered it us on day one.

It would mean though that the xenophobes wouldn’t be appeased.

Japan says hi

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Sadiq Khan is now on about free movement of people , he is using the service sector as an example

He says imagine being in the hotel industry , a sandwich shop or a coffee shop in London if we stop free movement ....

Pret lady says hi.

 

[west didsblue]

That’s just made up.

I , leavers the uk government would have been absolutely delighted if the withdrawal agreement dealt with us leaving the eu AND legally dealt with our continuing economic arrangement. If that was Norway customs , great take your pick. Fine by me.

But the eu said no, I am not blaming the eu I am just telling you on what they insisted from the outset.

Norway are part of the Single Market.
We have excluded being part of the Single Market.
We therefore can't have a Norway deal unless we change our stance.

 

[Metal Biker]

Sadiq Khan is now on about free movement of people , he is using the service sector as an example

He says imagine being in the hotel industry , a sandwich shop or a coffee shop in London if we stop free movement ....

Pret lady says hi.

Elitist in "why aren't the peasants choosing to do service jobs anymore?" shocker.

People have wised up to the treatment, the high turnover, the low wages, and the general disrespect, so people like Khan want to scour the globe looking for the gullible/uninitiated/desperate people to do those same service jobs because they want to be kept in the lifestyle to which they are accustomed, as people here have already wised up that such jobs, unless they pay more, simply are not worth it.

 

[west didsblue]

Japan says hi

More like Japan says bye after we leave.
They haven't agreed to roll over their deal.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Norway are part of the Single Market.
We have excluded being part of the Single Market.
We therefore can't have a Norway deal unless we change our stance.

The point really is the refusal by the eu to have a trade deal and withdrawal agreement agreed at the same time. They have had 3 years it could have and should have been done.

The withdrawal agreement gives us a period of transition but not an actual new deal.

Call me mystic meg but I have a vision which is this.

We leave on the 31/10 with the withdrawal agreement with a softer /amended backstop agreement

We then go into the transitional trading period

We then never actually agree a new deal but endlessly extend the transitional arrangements again and again.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Elitist in "why aren't the peasants choosing to do service jobs anymore?" shocker.

People have wised up to the treatment, the high turnover, the low wages, and the general disrespect, so people like Khan want to scour the globe looking for the gullible/uninitiated/desperate people to do those same service jobs because they want to be kept in the lifestyle to which they are accustomed, as people here have already wised up that such jobs, unless they pay more, simply are not worth it.

Bingo

 

[Ban-jani]

Japan says hi

Yes and them, they were on the graph.

 

[Blue Hefner]

Sadiq Khan is now on about free movement of people , he is using the service sector as an example

He says imagine being in the hotel industry , a sandwich shop or a coffee shop in London if we stop free movement ....

Pret lady says hi.

He used nurses in the interview I heard. And the wider point of ending FoM and the 'hostile environment' he has a very good point

 

[Blue Hefner]

 

[smudgedj]

Elitist in "why aren't the peasants choosing to do service jobs anymore?" shocker.

People have wised up to the treatment, the high turnover, the low wages, and the general disrespect, so people like Khan want to scour the globe looking for the gullible/uninitiated/desperate people to do those same service jobs because they want to be kept in the lifestyle to which they are accustomed, as people here have already wised up that such jobs, unless they pay more, simply are not worth it.

It matters not. There will be no bread for Pret staff to make sandwiches with. Or money to buy them.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

And people say trump talks bollox

Those against the backstop ... support reestablishing the border.

How are politicians able to just make such utter sweeping statements of bollox.

He does not even understand the issue with the backstop which is a negotiating tool for the eu, or worse a means of keeping the uk in the eu against its governments wishes.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

He used nurses in the interview I heard. And the wider point of ending FoM and the 'hostile environment' he has a very good point

Yep but if you want to advocate the benefits of free movement perhaps use nurses, doctors, tradesmen as the benefits . Not cheap coffee , butties and hotel rooms for cockneys

 

[joe123]

Sadiq Khan is now on about free movement of people , he is using the service sector as an example

He says imagine being in the hotel industry , a sandwich shop or a coffee shop in London if we stop free movement ....

Pret lady says hi.

Well he actually said they work in the NHS, construction, restaurants and social care, and as of the 1st of November, their ability to leave and return to the UK will change and it's wrong to use people as bargaining chips. Which I don't think in fairness adds up to the elitist angle you're pushing here.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Well he actually said they work in the NHS, construction, restaurants and social care, and as of the 1st of November, their ability to leave and return to the UK will change and it's wrong to use people as bargaining chips. Which I don't think in fairness adds up to the elitist angle you're pushing here.

See my post above . He also used the service sector - not wise

For the record I could not give a fuck about free movement . Anything that allows pep , Laporte , Silva Bernardo to move back and forth and for their families to visit when they want uninhibited is fine by me. I will need it.

As soon as my son leaves school for uni. I am out of this shithole.