Another new Brexit thread

[BobKowalski]

By rejecting parallel talks and the introduction of the backstop into the WA, with its adverse impact on the negotiation of future trade deals, the EU are trying to ensure Brexit will be as damaging to us as possible. We should expect no less, it is their obligation to protect the remaining group by discouraging further depatures.

Brexit will be damaging? Sunlit uplands mate. Sunlit uplands.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Apologies .... I must have missed the bit where you

1) Solved the Irish border question

2) took back control of our borders

by having a hard Brexit.

Checks at the Irish sea ports. Pretty obvious.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

LOL.....https://www.talktofrank.com

My you are funny!

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Or to put it another way, they are making sure they are putting protection of the interests of their members ahead of other considerations as you'd expect. The fact that this would disadvantage us should have been recognised before we voted to leave and should therefore have been taken into account. Actually, thinking about it, it was recognised by Remain but was dismissed as part of Project Fear by the Leavers.

I do appreciate that the EU must of course do what best serves itself and its remaining members,but there is a fine line it seems between that and seeking to cause deliberate harm in order to coerce a nation into remaining. It may be this sense of strong-arm tactics that make some leavers so determined and in turn some Remainers exasperated at what they see as an act of national self harm?

 

[Ban-jani]

Checks at the Irish sea ports. Pretty obvious.

A ship drops off containers in Dublin, a lorry takes the containers to Limerick and picks up some new containers, what is then to stop it driving into the UK via a normal road on the island of Ireland?

 

[BobKowalski]

Checks at the Irish sea ports. Pretty obvious.

A customs border down the Irish Sea with NI remaining in the EU regulatory zone and British and Irish ports handling checks etc. It is the EU’s preferred solution. The DUP are hostile to it as are some MPs on both sides as it divides the U.K. but it makes sense. Trouble is it can’t get through Parliament and will provoke Unionist sentiment in NI.

 

[west didsblue]

I do appreciate that the EU must of course do what best serves itself and its remaining members,but there is a fine line it seems between that and seeking to cause deliberate harm in order to coerce a nation into remaining. It may be this sense of strong-arm tactics that make some leavers so determined and in turn some Remainers exasperated at what they see as an act of national self harm?

Where is the independent evidence that the EU are seeking to cause deliberate harm?
You do know that you can't take the likes of Johnson, Mogg and Francois as authoritative sources don't you?
Or the Daily Express or Mail.

 

[west didsblue]

A customs border down the Irish Sea with NI remaining in the EU regulatory zone and British and Irish ports handling checks etc. It is the EU’s preferred solution. The DUP are hostile to it as are some MPs on both sides as it divides the U.K. but it makes sense. Trouble is it can’t get through Parliament and will provoke Unionist sentiment in NI.

It's incredible that you still need to keep explaining this.

 

[BobKowalski]

I do appreciate that the EU must of course do what best serves itself and its remaining members,but there is a fine line it seems between that and seeking to cause deliberate harm in order to coerce a nation into remaining. It may be this sense of strong-arm tactics that make some leavers so determined and in turn some Remainers exasperated at what they see as an act of national self harm?

The EU isn’t causing deliberate harm. We want to put up trade barriers to the EU and restrict FoM which will impact on Services. This will naturally hinder our economy. If we choose to do this then how are the consequences of our actions the fault of someone else?

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

A customs border down the Irish Sea with NI remaining in the EU regulatory zone and British and Irish ports handling checks etc. It is the EU’s preferred solution. The DUP are hostile to it as are some MPs on both sides as it divides the U.K. but it makes sense. Trouble is it can’t get through Parliament and will provoke Unionist sentiment in NI.

Common sense approach. Shame the DUP appear to be calling the shots. Perhaps they need to be given the hard choice. A border like they had 20 yrs ago or some checks in the Irish Sea. It's not as if they dont have some checks already when you cross the water.

 

[west didsblue]

Common sense approach. Shame the DUP appear to be calling the shots. Perhaps they need to be given the hard choice. A border like they had 20 yrs ago or some checks in the Irish Sea. It's not as if they dont have some checks already when you cross the water.

The Republicans / Nationalists would accept that tomorrow. The ultra loyalist fringe of the Unionist side would kick off big style and violence would doubtless ensue. It would, however provide a huge boost to the NI economy as it would be the only part of the UK effectively in the Customs Union and Single Market and a lot of jobs from Great Britain would migrate there. As a counter to the uptick in violence, the economic prosperity generated by this solution for NI may well marginalise the extremists. I think it would only be a matter of time before a united Ireland would happen as a result of this.
Of course this could never happen with this government as the DUP have Johnson by the balls, and he hasn't got the bottle to risk having them squeezed.

 

[BobKowalski]

Ide

Common sense approach. Shame the DUP appear to be calling the shots. Perhaps they need to be given the hard choice. A border like they had 20 yrs ago or some checks in the Irish Sea. It's not as if they dont have some checks already when you cross the water.

For ideological reasons the DUP would choose a land border between NI and the Republic rather than tolerate the symbolism of a sea border despite the fact there are animal checks already.

For the Unionists and Nationalists this isn’t really about customs or trade it’s about identity so no matter which border we choose to impose on NI we run the risk of provoking one side or the other. The ideal solution is no border on land or sea but that means no Brexit. As ever with Brexit it’s about choices and our inability to face or accept these choices is why have reached an impasse.

 

[George Hannah]

Checks at the Irish sea ports. Pretty obvious.

As currently conducted on non-EU imports and exports to the Republic and should be combined with the phased introduction of measures proposed by the joint UK/EU Alternative Arrangements panel. Won't happen though, the purpose of the backstop is nothing to do with preserving the peace - it is simply designed to keep the UK inside the EU trading area indefinitely - note the 17 year interval before Norway concluded its EU deal.

 

[BobKowalski]

As currently conducted on non-EU imports and exports to the Republic and combined with the phased introduction of measures proposed by the joint UK/EU Alternative Arrangements panel. Won't happen though, the purpose of the backstop is nothing to do with preserving the peace - it is simply designed to keep the UK inside the EU trading area indefinitely - note the 17 year interval before Norway concluded its EU deal.

The EU favour a customs border down the Irish Sea. They initially proposed it.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Ide


For ideological reasons the DUP would choose a land border between NI and the Republic rather than tolerate the symbolism of a sea border despite the fact there are animal checks already.

For the Unionists and Nationalists this isn’t really about customs or trade it’s about identity so no matter which border we choose to impose on NI we run the risk of provoking one side or the other. The ideal solution is no border on land or sea but that means no Brexit. As ever with Brexit it’s about choices and our inability to face or accept these choices is why have reached an impasse.

Theres already people checks if you fly between NI and the UK.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Ide


For ideological reasons the DUP would choose a land border between NI and the Republic rather than tolerate the symbolism of a sea border despite the fact there are animal checks already.

For the Unionists and Nationalists this isn’t really about customs or trade it’s about identity so no matter which border we choose to impose on NI we run the risk of provoking one side or the other. The ideal solution is no border on land or sea but that means no Brexit. As ever with Brexit it’s about choices and our inability to face or accept these choices is why have reached an impasse.

Also I am not sure the people of NI would agree with that stance by the DUP. The wife's family are Protestants and they are not that botherd. I actually think most people in NI are similar. As usual it's the politicians that stir up trouble in NI.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Ide


For ideological reasons the DUP would choose a land border between NI and the Republic rather than tolerate the symbolism of a sea border despite the fact there are animal checks already.

For the Unionists and Nationalists this isn’t really about customs or trade it’s about identity so no matter which border we choose to impose on NI we run the risk of provoking one side or the other. The ideal solution is no border on land or sea but that means no Brexit. As ever with Brexit it’s about choices and our inability to face or accept these choices is why have reached an impasse.

Correct.The DUP nut-jobs would cheerfully wind back the clock on both the peace process and the border. They'd never say as much, but they'd rather see a return of the troubles than any concession which may be perceived as a step towards reunification.

 

[BobKowalski]

Also I am not sure the people of NI would agree with that stance by the DUP. The wife's family are Protestants and they are not that botherd. I actually think most people in NI are similar. As usual it's the politicians that stir up trouble in NI.

Agreed. It’s very much a hardline DUP stance rather than a majority one.

 

[George Hannah]

Common sense approach. Shame the DUP appear to be calling the shots. Perhaps they need to be given the hard choice. A border like they had 20 yrs ago or some checks in the Irish Sea. It's not as if they dont have some checks already when you cross the water.

The GFA requires an 'appropriate' border not 'no border' and such arrangements can be achieved with goodwill and cooperation, indeed they have already been agreed by Ireland and the EU for implementation in the event of a no deal. The obstacles to a solution have been systematically exploited for economic advantage by Varadkar and Selmayer.

 

[aguero93:20]

I do appreciate that the EU must of course do what best serves itself and its remaining members,but there is a fine line it seems between that and seeking to cause deliberate harm in order to coerce a nation into remaining. It may be this sense of strong-arm tactics that make some leavers so determined and in turn some Remainers exasperated at what they see as an act of national self harm?

Nobody is trying to coerce the UK into remaining, the UK just hasn't been willing to accept the consequences of leaving yet. You've been offered two options to leave dictated by your own red lines but your parliament won't back either one. Tbh at this stage the majority of the EU27 would probably rather you just fucked off so we could move the focus onto other issues.