Var debate 2019/20

I can see VAR leading to more and more crowd trouble. Normally if fans feel cheated by a decision especially a big one they can instantly vent at the Ref. The Ref is now just a message boy for VAR so all that pent up anger goes against the opposition fans instead inside or outside the stadium.
 
Apparently there are two VAR officials in their little den. They can overrule very experienced refs and the liners role is somewhat diminished. So for each match we now have a total of six officials and they still can't get it right.

Where have all these officials come from to fill the new vacancies as the officials at each match have increased by 50% virtually overnight? It seems a lot have been promoted too fast and even over-promoted.

There is the same number of officials as last year but they are doing twice as much work. The bloke who did the VAR in Saturday against us was the one who was late for his match on the Sunday. Pep has said that they have taken too much on and no one should be doing two high profile matches in a weekend. Everything about how the clowns are running it is a joke except it is a little like a jimharri joke on off topic......it's not funny :_)
 
There is the same number of officials as last year but they are doing twice as much work. The bloke who did the VAR in Saturday against us was the one who was late for his match on the Sunday. Pep has said that they have taken too much on and no one should be doing two high profile matches in a weekend. Everything about how the clowns are running it is a joke except it is a little like a jimharri joke on off topic......it's not funny :_)

Obviously VAR officials have to be competent, but officiating a match requires a much broader skill set than applying VAR. They obviously don’t have to manage the players, they don’t require the same fitness levels. Rugby league refs frequently referee a match at the weekend and then act as video refs the next day, without anyone suggesting that they can’t do both.
 
Martin Samuel has picked up on the false claims.
That's great. i haven't seen what he has written yet but at least he knows a story when he sees one. Swarbrick has been quoted all week and has tried to twist the meaning of the words used in the IFAB laws document but no one has nailed him on it. It is obvious that the FA has pushed the handball rules further than stated by IFAB. There has been a lot of covering of backs this week. The VAR officials got both decisions wrong at the Spurs match but no one in the media wants to call them out for it. Perhaps the relationship between people like SKY Sports and the VAR leadership is too cosy and us fans are just not in the loop.
 
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Just have a difference of opinion Karen.

Already mentioned the negatives of VAR and have been more than balanced. For me it’s a case of really trying to make it work - however long it takes , rather than scraping it for the ‘old system’ where we have Refs and officials who make blind decisions.
It’s not about whether it works, whether it really starts to get the decisions right. It’s about it killing the emotions of goals, all goals.

You don’t know anymore whether some infringement you might not have seen will see a goal disallowed, even if there is nothing wrong with it, you don’t know at the time if you’ve missed something... so you can’t celebrate goals properly anymore.

It’s ruining what’s great about the sport.
 
It’s not about whether it works, whether it really starts to get the decisions right. It’s about it killing the emotions of goals, all goals.

You don’t know anymore whether some infringement you might not have seen will see a goal disallowed, even if there is nothing wrong with it, you don’t know at the time if you’ve missed something... so you can’t celebrate goals properly anymore.

It’s ruining what’s great about the sport.
Exactly and regardless of how much better VAR becomes,that celebration when a goal is scored is gone forever. That is the problem with VAR.
 
So if say a City player is obviously fouled and falls but foul not given but we score from a resultant shot that brushes the arm of the fouled player a penalty cannot be given but the goal can be disallowed despite the fouled player ignoring everything except his own balance?
 
So if say a City player is obviously fouled and falls but foul not given but we score from a resultant shot that brushes the arm of the fouled player a penalty cannot be given but the goal can be disallowed despite the fouled player ignoring everything except his own balance?

there are so many variables and "what if" scenarios, the new law is undermined and cannot be fairly imposed
 
Var is a farce, let's face it, if a liverpool fan is in the studio at stockley viewing a City match they're never going to give a decision in Citys favour are they.
VAR = Vary Any Result in my opinion.
Whereas goal line technology has been easily accepted. There's too much wiggle room in VAR for human prejudice; human incompetence and corruption (principally from betting syndicates) to play a role. In that respect, to me it's not much of an improvement upon the days of old Alf.
The apparent inability in some quarters to even accept errors may have happened is not positive as acceptance of such is the first step to improving the system. I never expected it to be 100% correct when it was originally rolled out, but I expected it to be much, much better once its trial was completed. Similar problems appeared in the home games with THFC in last season's Champions League and this year's league match but nothing seems to have been learnt in the period between the two games.
VAR is great for the Milner offside last season because that was a clear and obvious error. It's less so when it's dealing with toenails and shirt thickness variances.
When I last ran, my body was leaning forwards as it was infinitely easier to do than running upright or leaning backwards, unless you're John Cleese. If one attacker is running forward and a defender is holding their position then there is every likelihood that part of the forward's body will be closer to the goal than the defender. To me, it's much more sensible to restrict everything to the feet.
Until they can provide a photo akin to that provided in athletics or cycling finishes, the technology is always going to be open to manipulation. Until then, everything remains in the hands of human fallibility.
Furthermore, I sense a creep towards the American football situation where a sixty minute game takes three hours to complete.
 
That's great. i haven't seen what he has written yet but at least he knows a story when he sees one. Swarbrick has been quoted all week and has tried to twist the meaning of the words used in the IFAB laws document but no one has nailed him on it. It is obvious that the FA has pushed the handball rules further than stated by IFAB. There has been a lot of covering of backs this week. The VAR officials got both decisions wrong at the Spurs match but no one in the media wants to call them out for it. Perhaps the relationship between people like SKY Sports and the VAR leadership is too cosy and us fans are just not in the loop.

He said this:

If there was anything positive about Manchester City’s disallowed goal last weekend, it was the sight of all those playing at being the only grown-up in the village being exposed as imposters, the former referees and many hipsters who sneeringly told critics that if they had just paid attention in the summer they would know that the VAR verdict was correct.

Delightfully, it turns out they don’t know the handball rule either. Kevin De Bruyne, the Manchester City player who complained most bitterly, was smugly concluded to be an ignoramus by people who had as smart a take on it as Ian Holloway.

De Bruyne’s only mistake was in completely accepting the official explanation for why Gabriel Jesus’s goal was disallowed, when it was wrong and based on a bogus interpretation.

De Bruyne was informed that any handball in the build-up to a goal is an offence, when the rule actually states: ‘It is an offence if a player gains possession/control of the ball after it has touched their hand/arm and then creates a goalscoring opportunity.’

Yet Aymeric Laporte in no way gained control or possession from his glancing deflection, and when the ball ended up with Jesus, he still had to beat several Tottenham players to score. So it isn’t the law that is an ass, but VAR as applied in this country. The fault, as ever, is human. We are told the kinks in VAR will settle down but for that to happen common sense must prevail. There is scant evidence of it so far.
 
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Especially, when our officials were already considered amongst the worst on the plant e.g. no ref at the Men’s World Cup.

Btw one of the VARs has come from Australia where I think he was a Rugby League ref. No doubt he’s done his conversion training
But they haven't been weeded out yet.
 
VAR = Vary Any Result in my opinion.
Whereas goal line technology has been easily accepted. There's too much wiggle room in VAR for human prejudice; human incompetence and corruption (principally from betting syndicates) to play a role. In that respect, to me it's not much of an improvement upon the days of old Alf.
The apparent inability in some quarters to even accept errors may have happened is not positive as acceptance of such is the first step to improving the system. I never expected it to be 100% correct when it was originally rolled out, but I expected it to be much, much better once its trial was completed. Similar problems appeared in the home games with THFC in last season's Champions League and this year's league match but nothing seems to have been learnt in the period between the two games.
VAR is great for the Milner offside last season because that was a clear and obvious error. It's less so when it's dealing with toenails and shirt thickness variances.
When I last ran, my body was leaning forwards as it was infinitely easier to do than running upright or leaning backwards, unless you're John Cleese. If one attacker is running forward and a defender is holding their position then there is every likelihood that part of the forward's body will be closer to the goal than the defender. To me, it's much more sensible to restrict everything to the feet.
Until they can provide a photo akin to that provided in athletics or cycling finishes, the technology is always going to be open to manipulation. Until then, everything remains in the hands of human fallibility.
Furthermore, I sense a creep towards the American football situation where a sixty minute game takes three hours to complete.
Or Michael Johnson.
 
As I said in another thread to me it’s not the right or wrongs of the decision it’s the fact that it is ruining everything the game is about for me. I go to see goals and to celebrate

So imagine the greatest moment in our clubs recent history

Balotelli...... AGUEROOOOOOOO.......

We are now going to a VAR check.

Imagine that moment totally ruined by var irrespective of the outcome.

It’s shit
 
One thing I thought of was that if it happens the other way and a goal is ruled off for handball against the other team then we get a direct free kick. The opposition goalie may not be concentrating. Ederson should be alive to this and hammer the ball up field as soon as the free kick is awarded.
 
In my experience if City get screwed, support for City always intensifies.
Yes but if you as a fan get screwed do you just keep going ,feeding the system pretending things are just fine..?
There is a marked diffence from turning out in numbers home and away providing large vocal support from the terrace in the days when Football was a raw, passionate ,vocal, spectator experience ..and roaring the team on... to the mess which is the premier ship 'product' today.. I'd like our game back...snatched back from the US style video led dramatic histrionics which now characterize top level Football.
Please don't confuse support for our great club with support for the current system..there is a marked difference between the two,imo.
I withdrew my support for the system 3 years ago.No one can tell me im not a Blue.I cannot abide cheats and the game is full of them..and getting worse.
If our 'top referee' (lol)cannot see the most blatant penalty yards in front of him ..and has the audacity to tell the var official on his earpiece 'no penalty' then God help us all.

If ,as some posters have said. .he didnt see the incident clearly how come he over ruledVar?

If..he was taking advice and.. Var didn't think it was a pen....what's the point.?The game is dead.
 
Referees have always been shocking. The effect of every game being televised with multiple angles and now VAR just makes it more obvious.

Back in the day you just thought that some twat like Alf Grey had made a diabolical decision, but actually you had no way of proving it and you had to admit (if you were honest) that you might yourself be a tad biased. Now the evidence is there, thrust in our faces, and it's blatantly obvious that most officials are either grossly incompetent or plain cheats. OK, it's early days with VAR yet. You could argue there are teething problems which will be ironed out. But say it goes on like this? Blatant cheat after blatant cheat. At what point will people say "fuck this!" and either give up or go and watch Prestwich Heys, which is a lot cheaper and doesn't have TV or VAR shit?
 
VAR has the opportunity to be a great tool if it’s used correctly, like in rugby and cricket and tennis. I firmly believe though, it’s only as good as the person reviewing it, there is no transparency or accountability. Let the referee make the decision if it needs to be looked at.
The game is worth billions, it should be put on big screens, not shrouded in secrecy to allow personal interpretations/bias to sway the decision.
As much as I want to believe there isn’t an agenda to try and level up the PL and try and rein us in. The ineptitude and suspect/selective use of VAR is what is infuriating for the fans.
EVERYONE could clearly see the takedown of Rodri, yet the officials nor VAR wanted to acknowledge it as a foul, but less than 30 seconds later Sterling is being booked for exactly the same offence on the half way line.
Inconsistency? Absolutely.
Favouritism and bottling it. Absolutely.

Read it how you like, VAR is the new tool to try and stifle us. This will not be happing to the media darlings.
 

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