Another new Brexit thread

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Team Johnson not happy...with Parliamentary democracy. Also does anyone have a clue as to what exactly is the U.K. position?

“It’s utterly perverse that Corbyn and his allies are actively seeking to sabotage the UK’s position. This coalition of anti-democrats should be honest with the British public, they are against us leaving the EU no matter what.“
 
BobKowalski said:
Team Johnson not happy...with Parliamentary democracy. Also does anyone have a clue as to what exactly is the U.K. position?

“It’s utterly perverse that Corbyn and his allies are actively seeking to sabotage the UK’s position. This coalition of anti-democrats should be honest with the British public, they are against us leaving the EU no matter what.“
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I think our current official position is 'act like cunts', but you might want to double check that.
 
cibaman said:
When she says it’s the gravest abuse of power and attack on the constitution is she actually saying it’s illegal?
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I'll have a stab at it, but it's a stab in the dark.

Johnson can't do it. The Privy Council recommends it to the Queen. The PC is normally just a formal small number of ministers (so would do BJ's will, or resign). The full PC (650 of them) meets only when there's a new monarch, or an unmarried monarch announces his or her intention to marry. If prorogation was attempted other than preparatory to a GE, then we are into a constitutional black hole, in which it would be hard not to get the lawyers involved. Ultimately, the sovereign is not bound to take the PC advice...

So if they have the votes, Parliament could in theory pass legislation (e.g.) to make prorogation unlawful other than to call a GE - with the Speaker saying such prorogation is unprecedented so the sovereignty of Parliament must be secured some other way (i.e. by ignoring other conventions about government control of the timetable). It's effectively a vote of no confidence (i.e. the PM has lost his meagre majority) without calling one under the law.

Conceivably, the PM gets HMQ to prorogue Parliament, and Parliament decides not to be prorogued (i.e. asserts its independence of the sovereign). There's a bit of precedent for that.

Civil war ensues.
 
smudgedj said:
They’ll do anything to prevent no deal. Except vote for May’s deal. Or a future Boris deal.
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What Boris deal?
As for May's deal, it was the votes of the Brexit supporters that scuppered that one. You can't blame the opposition who weren't consulted during the negotiations.
 
west didsblue said:
What Boris deal?
As for May's deal, it was the votes of the Brexit supporters that scuppered that one. You can't blame the opposition who weren't consulted during the negotiations.
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Rubbish.

The erg are hard core leavers perfectly happy to leave with no deal. Some of them would prefer it.

Labour are the ones shouting off about doing anything possible to prevent no deal.

They aren’t are they. They could vote for the withdrawal agreement and we would be leaving with a deal. Easy.

As for what Boris deal? If you are suggesting that there can’t be another deal with the eu so Boris is wasting his time well then people who don’t want to leave with no deal I suggest need to support their friends In The eu who have put the only deal on the table and vote for it.
 
BobKowalski said:
Team Johnson not happy...with Parliamentary democracy. Also does anyone have a clue as to what exactly is the U.K. position?

“It’s utterly perverse that Corbyn and his allies are actively seeking to sabotage the UK’s position. This coalition of anti-democrats should be honest with the British public, they are against us leaving the EU no matter what.“
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Ultimately, we have a Parliamentary democracy. Leave will say the referendum was said by the major parties to be a decision they would implement but legally it was only advisory. Leave will say Parliament voted to invoke Article 50 (which is not strictly true as they merely granted the PM the authority to do it) but at that point revocation was not thought possible (it was an assumption in the legal cases at the Supreme Court, and the ECJ had not then ruled that it could be revoked).

Parliament will say that it's over three years since the referendum, most of our constituents just want not to get on with it, but just make it stop, and revocation is the only way. A political party can always try again to get a majority for Leave.
 
west didsblue said:
What Boris deal?
As for May's deal, it was the votes of the Brexit supporters that scuppered that one. You can't blame the opposition who weren't consulted during the negotiations.
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That’s why I included the word ‘future’
If every brexit supporter in parliament would have voted for that it would still have failed.
 
Vic said:
Ultimately, we have a Parliamentary democracy. Leave will say the referendum was said by the major parties to be a decision they would implement but legally it was only advisory. Leave will say Parliament voted to invoke Article 50 (which is not strictly true as they merely granted the PM the authority to do it) but at that point revocation was not thought possible (it was an assumption in the legal cases at the Supreme Court, and the ECJ had not then ruled that it could be revoked).

Parliament will say that it's over three years since the referendum, most of our constituents just want not to get on with it, but just make it stop, and revocation is the only way. A political party can always try again to get a majority for Leave.
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Revocation may be a sensible option to end this in October. But this bollox about doing anything possible to prevent leaving with no deal is just that, bollox.

If labour and it’s new band of Merry men want to stop brexit altogether, which let’s face it they do. Then just be honest with everyone.
 
Vic said:
Still missing the point. Deliberately I presume.
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Nope - certainly not deliberately. That would be disingenuous and I leave that to others

Cannot see why you think that I was missing the point?

You - and others - are taking comfort that you seem to be on the same capability level of intelligent reasoning as scousers - that is what the posts are saying

That makes you feel good about yourself - fair play to you. Seems a low benchmark to me though I must say - its not something that I would be getting all pumped up about
 
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kevin horlocks wand said:
Rubbish.

The erg are hard core leavers perfectly happy to leave with no deal. Some of them would prefer it.

Labour are the ones shouting off about doing anything possible to prevent no deal.

They aren’t are they. They could vote for the withdrawal agreement and we would be leaving with a deal. Easy.

As for what Boris deal? If you are suggesting that there can’t be another deal with the eu so Boris is wasting his time well then people who don’t want to leave with no deal I suggest need to support their friends In The eu who have put the only deal on the table and vote for it.
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So it's fine for the ERG to vote against their own leadership because you expect the opposition to support the government? Are you having a laugh?
 
mcfc1632 said:
Nope - certainly not deliberately. That would be disingenuous and I leave that to others

Cannot see why you think that I was missing the point?

You - and others - are taking comfort that you seem to be on the same capability level of intelligent reasoning as scousers - that is what the posts are saying

That makes you feel good about yourself - fair play to you. Seems a low benchmark to me though I must say - and not something that I would be getting all pumped up about
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Football aside, are you really saying that the whole population of Merseyside have a lesser capability of intelligent reasoning than the population in general?

And before you go off on one again like a spoilt kid, I'll respond to any post I want without being told what to do by you.
 
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mcfc1632 said:
See - you could not stop yourself - lol

Bet you do it again
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You can’t just keep replying to me trying to take the piss and then keep saying “I bet you respond” - “I bet you have to have the last word”.

You’re a middle aged man ffs, grow up.

If I want to respond to you, I fucking will alright?

I bet you respond to this message.
 
kevin horlocks wand said:
The erg are happy to leave with no deal

Labour are saying they would do anything possible to stop no deal ?

Do you actually see the difference?
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Since the prospect of No Deal actually became apparently real with this current PM, how many opportunities have MPs had to vote? And which MPs have already said that they won't for any deal at all?
Answers are zero and the ERG.
 
mcfc1632 said:
Utterly wrong again - do you not think before firing off? Why not try it.

There is much commentary out there reflecting on the need for the EU not to do anything/keep its powder dry until a point in September. That is because they - as yet - do not see the prospect of a viable No-deal and are not observing the political will to enact one.

It is not hard - you do not even need to google unless you have been on some remote island for a while. The EU is aware - it is in all the newspapers and on TV - that Labour, LibDems and others are going to hold a VONC in the coming weeks and in other ways/seek to stop any prospect of No-Deal in ways that make it illegal.

Hmmm - does that reflect political will to you? Can you see that they do not need to do anything at this point - for them the machinations of self-serving residents of Westminster will hopefully do their work for them.

As is often the case with the EU - this will come down to 'late manoeuvrings'

But even that is not the only - or even the main point.

If you had read what was posted rather than just do your knee-jerk thing - I have said clearly that you cannot force another party to come to the table. The UK must prepare for No-Deal - should have been doing as a priority since June 2016. Only then does it become a viable option - only when it is a viable option can the political will to use it come to the fore - and if that does not lead to a deal that is deemed acceptable materialising - then you are at least positioned to enact it.

You have - if only IMO - been utterly wrong on this, seemingly due to a lack of understanding of what is meant, since 2016 and are now doubling-down.
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I genuinely believe you don’t live in reality.

I’ll keep it simple because I’m not going to allow you to waffle around the point and purposely miss the question.

Since Johnson has been much stronger than May when it comes to no deal, have the EU moved at all on the backstop?

Just a yes or no answer will be needed.
 
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