Respectfully - I suggest that your posts would convey much more credence and attract a deal more consideration if they were portrayed less pre-disposition and obsession with Nazis
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Another new Brexit thread
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Yes we didJust one question:
It's the UK who voted to leave right? So why should the EU find a solution to the Backstop for the UK? Surely the onus is on the UK to come with a workable solution?
The process is A50 - which requires the EU to negotiate
"……why should the EU find a solution to the Backstop..?"
I find this a strange question to ask - but I will answer it.
Certainly the EU have no need to find a solution for the backstop - and neither have the UK
Do you understand why?
You have the cheek to say I don’t understand and won’t admit I’m wrong and in your last two posts you’ve answered “yes” to me asking if the EU have budged and now you’re saying they haven’t because there’s an opposition to no deal in the HoC.
You need to get your own argument sorted before you post like an obnoxious prick.
For the record I do understand how negotiations work, I work in a sales environment and therefore negotiate every day.
The “walk away” tactic only works if the client/party you’re dealing with knows you’ve got something viable to walk away to, whether that be the status quo or another deal elsewhere. No deal isn’t that because the EU know that we’ll have zero trade deals on November 1st and that our industries will suffer massively.
Sure they don’t want no deal but it’ll hurt 27 countries far less than it’ll hurt 1, considering they’ll continue to trade freely with each other and other nations around the world.
The trouble Johnson now has is that there’s the very strong risk he won’t get a US free trade deal if he messes with the GFA, in which a no deal will do. US Congress have said they’ll block it if anything at all is done. Time is not on his/our side with this and Johnson is in a corner.
You were on this forum telling everyone that they’re overestimating the Irish border issue and scoffed at how “obsessed” we were with it. Well it turns out once again we were right and the Irish border is the biggest issue with Brexit.
Your problem is that you think we all want Brexit frustrated and we want it binned, I don’t necessarily, I want us to leave with a deal now because that’s what we voted for.
I did not really pay attention after I read:
"You need to get your own argument sorted before you post like an obnoxious prick." this means that it is clear that you cannot stop digging and are lost in your own hole.
I did see: "For the record I do understand how negotiations work, I work in a sales environment and therefore negotiate every day."
You might do some junior stuff - you clearly do not understand at higher levels - and yes, the UK government consider me highly qualified to make that judgement.
You might consider that to be another obnoxious statement - it is just fact and I am blunt because, given the manner in which you post, that is all you deserve IMO.
I might get around to reading the rest to see if there is anything of substance
Edit: Just to give you chance to climb out of the hole - because you are again twisting the words
This exchange is against the background of you stating that the EU has been facing the genuine prospect of a No-Deal outcome since Johnson took over
I have explained - in Janet and John terms - that is patently not the case and they will wait to see how the next couple of weeks unfold before determining their position. I have, since 2016, explained that they will not move unless and until they face the prospect of a viable No-Deal outcome and the political will to use it. The current events strongly support that long-standing view.
So do you maintain that:
"EU has been facing the prospect of a viable No-Deal since Johnson took over"?
No more waffle/bluster/twisting of words - a yes or no will do
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Dribble
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So are you denying the tactics used by Nazi Nige & the people he's aligned himself with (Bannon - Trump), doesn't bear a resemblance to the tactics employed by Adolf Hitler?Respectfully - I suggest that your posts would convey much more credence and attract a deal more consideration if they were portrayed less pre-disposition and obsession with Nazis
I feel how uncomfortable you're becoming with this realisation, but this is EXACTLY what happened with the people of Germany.
How we've allowed the same tactics to be used against us perplexes me. If we want to know where we're heading, all we have to do is look at where we've come from historically.
Don't feel ashamed, just please begin to look at Brexit from another viewpoint. The inability of most to do so is why there is so much anger from one side of the debate, to the other, & vice versa.
Like I said mate, forget the ideology & look at the facts...
Dribble
Well-Known Member
The EU & UK have found a workable solution to the Irish border question... It's called the Backstop. What don't you understand about this?Yes we did
The process is A50 - which requires the EU to negotiate
"……why should the EU find a solution to the Backstop..?"
I find this a strange question to ask - but I will answer it.
Certainly the EU have no need to find a solution for the backstop - and neither have the UK
Do you understand why?
kevin horlocks wand
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The EU & UK have found a workable solution to the Irish border question... It's called the Backstop. What don't you understand about this?
Not really the House of Commons voted it down 3 times.
If it was a solution it would have passed but it didnt
I have been looking at the facts since the early 90s - my views on the EU were formed many years before 2015.So are you denying the tactics used by Nazi Nige & the people he's aligned himself with (Bannon - Trump), doesn't bear a resemblance to the tactics employed by Adolf Hitler?
I feel how uncomfortable you're becoming with this realisation, but this is EXACTLY what happened with the people of Germany.
How we've allowed the same tactics to be used against us perplexes me. If we want to know where we're heading, all we have to do is look at where we've come from historically.
Don't feel ashamed, just please begin to look at Brexit from another viewpoint. The inability of most to do so is why there is so much anger from one side of the debate, to the other, & vice versa.
Like I said mate, forget the ideology & look at the facts...
I can readily see how people with the appropriate pre-disposition and desire to push a narrative can make the comparisons you do - god knows we have had it for over 3 years from many posters on here - although I credit you with setting a new benchmark.
When you say things like:
"I feel how uncomfortable you're becoming with this realisation.. and
"Don't feel ashamed"
You are just making yourself look a bit childish IMO - crack on
If you want to try and demonstrate some genuine analysis rather than all this nonsense
Have another go at:
"Certainly the EU have no need to find a solution for the backstop - and neither have the UK
Do you understand why?"
The attempt you just made was irrelevant to the question asked - try reading it first
Saddleworth2
Well-Known Member
It was the U.K. government that suggested the backstop in the first place :-)Just one question:
It's the UK who voted to leave right? So why should the EU find a solution to the Backstop for the UK? Surely the onus is on the UK to come with a workable solution?
Looks like Johnson is going ahead with attempts to prorogue Parliament then. Should be an interesting few weeks...
Wow - this will lead to some very interesting developments
Surely even Johnson is not stupid enough to let such considerations start to leak without first checking the legal status with the AG and onwards the SC?
If he has not been that stupid and they have confirmed that he has a legal position to do this, well…..
B
B
blueinsa
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Seems everyone can play games....
Saddleworth2
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Lol. How is that internet rollout getting on?I did not really pay attention after I read:
"You need to get your own argument sorted before you post like an obnoxious prick." this means that it is clear that you cannot stop digging and are lost in your own hole.
I did see: "For the record I do understand how negotiations work, I work in a sales environment and therefore negotiate every day."
You might do some junior stuff - you clearly do not understand at higher levels - and yes, the UK government consider me highly qualified to make that judgement.
Binned, revoked, stopped. Any of those three will do for me. If we are to be riven as a nation for the next god knows how many years better to do it within the EU rather than pissing against the wind outside it.You have the cheek to say I don’t understand and won’t admit I’m wrong and in your last two posts you’ve answered “yes” to me asking if the EU have budged and now you’re saying they haven’t because there’s an opposition to no deal in the HoC.
You need to get your own argument sorted before you post like an obnoxious prick.
For the record I do understand how negotiations work, I work in a sales environment and therefore negotiate every day.
The “walk away” tactic only works if the client/party you’re dealing with knows you’ve got something viable to walk away to, whether that be the status quo or another deal elsewhere. No deal isn’t that because the EU know that we’ll have zero trade deals on November 1st and that our industries will suffer massively.
Sure they don’t want no deal but it’ll hurt 27 countries far less than it’ll hurt 1, considering they’ll continue to trade freely with each other and other nations around the world.
The trouble Johnson now has is that there’s the very strong risk he won’t get a US free trade deal if he messes with the GFA, in which a no deal will do. US Congress have said they’ll block it if anything at all is done. Time is not on his/our side with this and Johnson is in a corner.
You were on this forum telling everyone that they’re overestimating the Irish border issue and scoffed at how “obsessed” we were with it. Well it turns out once again we were right and the Irish border is the biggest issue with Brexit.
Your problem is that you think we all want Brexit frustrated and we want it binned, I don’t necessarily, I want us to leave with a deal now because that’s what we voted for.
I read yesterday that 10 individuals (all millionaires) funded the majority of the Leave campaign. But no, it’s not a right wing coup. It’s the will of the people.
Ancient Citizen
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Correct.But no, it’s not a right wing coup. It’s the will of the people.
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese
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I share your concerns about a general lurch to the right in western politics at present. I'm slightly more relaxed about it as I view this as cyclical, and no worse really than the Thatcher /Reagan period in the 80's. I don't think the comparison with 1930's nazi era Germany bears comparison, and the problem with 'crying nazi' all the time is that it devalues the significance of the term. I feel in general you throw the term around a little too casually at folk who are quite possibly a bit unpleasant and right wing, but perhaps do not bear comparison with Adolf Hitler.Thanks for your respectful reply, but I'm a very pragmatic sort by nature & not driven by ideology. Therefore, I'm not interested in opinions, only fact, & when the facts are examined, it shows a scary dark side to the whole Brexit ideology.
Admittedly there has been a lot of lies & untruths told, but mostly by those wanting us to leave, but what you have to ask yourself is why do these rabid Brexiteers actually want to leave? This has all the hallmarks of what Hitler did in the 1930s, & the UK are sleepwalking right into it.
No-one gave a fuck about Nazi Nige throughout his 40 year campaign to reverse the 1975 vote for the UK to join the European Union. However, Nazi Nige has openly admitted that in the last 10 years, the UKiP & the Brexit Party have used immigration as a vehicle to seduce the common man, who the likes of Farage has never before given a fuck about. In fact, it's Nazi Nige who wants a no deal Brexit as he says our prized NHS is a massive waste of money & not fit for purpose, & that the UK would be better with a US style of healthcare, with American giants running it!
So is it any wonder that Nazi Nige is being supported & advised by fellow right wing extremist Steve Bannon & underpinned by Trump? The Brexit Party are the Tory's conscience, so therefore the Tories are dancing to Farage's tune for fear of him splitting their vote, leading to Comrade Corbyn at No 10.
It gets worse.... you REALLY need to get a look at the 'radical' policies Nazi Nige is advocating for the UK! Trust me, the UK will become an ultra right wing USA 2.0 within 10 years.
Consider this, seeing as Nazi Nige, & Bonkers Boris are so determined for the UK to be free from the EU, why are they so adamant that Ireland should remain divided, & Scotland remain as part of the Union? Where does 'We want our country back' come into it where Gibralter & the Falkland Isles come into it? There are several other UK overseas colonies who would like their countries back, just like the UK apparently, so where do Nazi Nige & Bonkers Boris stand on these age old issues?
Stop looking at Brexit, & focus on a list of reasons why you want the UK to leave. Once I see your list, I'll explain all the fallacies in as much detail as you please, so you can see things from a pragmatic viewpoint, chlorinated chicken, hormone injected beef, Gibralter, Ireland, the lot. I await your reply..
Saddleworth2
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Thank you.Correct.
BobKowalski
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Looks like Johnson is going ahead with attempts to prorogue Parliament then. Should be an interesting few weeks...
Yeah. The referendum which in part was about reclaiming Parliamentary sovereignty ends with the executive shooting Parliamentary sovereignty in the back of the head. As with all revolutions it eats its own.
This is of coarse just a guess, but I suspect that Johnson hopes parliament will find a way to block his moves here, and then he can portray himself as ultra-brexitman who was thwarted in his noble plans by the evil democratically elected members of parliament, and run the next election as the true salt of the earth, man of the people, that only Eton can produce.Wow - this will lead to some very interesting developments
Surely even Johnson is not stupid enough to let such considerations start to leak without first checking the legal status with the AG and onwards the SC?
If he has not been that stupid and they have confirmed that he has a legal position to do this, well…..
This is of coarse just a guess, but I suspect that Johnson hopes parliament will find a way to block his moves here, and then he can portray himself as ultra-brexitman who was thwarted in his noble plans by the evil democratically elected members of parliament, and run the next election as the true salt of the earth, man of the people, that only Eton can produce.
I think that's 100% what he's doing, in the hope of securing 52% of the vote at the next election.
And it will probably work, as the 52% will lap it up. The whole thing is just shite. How anyone who isn't rich can think that prick is on their side is just beyond me.I think that's 100% what he's doing, in the hope of securing 52% of the vote at the next election.
BobKowalski
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This is of coarse just a guess, but I suspect that Johnson hopes parliament will find a way to block his moves here, and then he can portray himself as ultra-brexitman who was thwarted in his noble plans by the evil democratically elected members of parliament, and run the next election as the true salt of the earth, man of the people, that only Eton can produce.
Don’t disagree but the other argument is that Johnson genuinely believes the only reason the EU won’t cave is because they think Parliament will block no deal and if he makes blocking impossible then the EU will fold on the backstop etc. We have consistently misread the EU for the last three years and alas we seem determined to continue this losing streak.
The other factor is that any ‘revised’ deal will have little time to pass Parliament. People forget that just voting for the deal in principle through Parliament is only the beginning of the saga as we have to pass the Act that goes with it which will take Parliamentary time that isn’t available before 31st Oct and the same is true of no deal legislation which will also be needed. We talk about preparing for no deal when in reality we are not even close.
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