Another new Brexit thread

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Vic said:
It doesn't matter because nothing seems to change minds or work. What would change your mind? We'll try that.
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Nothing will, because the evidence against any benefits to Brexit is already irrefutable. As several posters have more or less admitted, the three years since Brexit has been a frightening mass experiment in human stubborness and ego.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
It was the U.K. government that suggested the backstop in the first place :-)
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Yep but:

1. that was the utterly incompetent May, advised by a ridiculously amateurish Robbins, being spoonfed by the EU's professional negotiators

2. the 'agreement' that it is set out within has zero standing as it has been refused by the HoC

Where Office Dribble is getting wrong is there is no need for any solution to the 'backstop' problem because the backstop does not exist as any kind of formal/legal protocol

The Irish Border issue is an aspect arising from the negotiations that result from submission of the A50 notice. There will need to be decisions to address that issue - they seem pretty obvious to me - but I am not hell-bent on inventing things to stop Brexit happening
 
inbetween said:
They had their chance to stop no deal by voting against invoking Article 50.

They had their chance to vote through May's deal and prevent no deal but they rejected it three times.

They had a chance to say what deal they did want through the indicative votes and there was no overall majority for any of them.

If they do accept Brexit should happen then at what point will they vote for it?
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When we present a Withdrawal Agreement with the EU that can also find favour with a majority in Parliament. A Parliament that was elected by the people in 2017 and which declined to give a mandate to the Tories and elected Parties who were against a no deal Brexit. That the answer is proving difficult is not a reason to suspend a Parliament voted for by the people a year after the referendum.

If this Parliament can not find an answer and this Govt cannot govern then the solution is one we have used for centuries and that is an election.
 
BobKowalski said:
When we present a Withdrawal Agreement with the EU that can also find favour with a majority in Parliament. A Parliament that was elected by the people in 2017 and which declined to give a mandate to the Tories and elected Parties who were against a no deal Brexit. That the answer is proving difficult is not a reason to suspend a Parliament voted for by the people a year after the referendum.

If this Parliament can not find an answer and this Govt cannot govern then the solution is one we have used for centuries and that is an election.
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I think it will and I think Boris is happy with that outcome and why the opposition are now not proposing a vote of no confidence. If they won the Tories have said they will not allow a govt of national unity ( code for remainers) but simply dissolve parliament and call an election.

Labour would be wiped out.
 
Steve Bannons political philosophy is you have a break a system to the point of destruction and then rebuild it in your image.

Does this move look familiar...?
 
Saddleworth2 said:
Lol. How is that internet rollout getting on?

Binned, revoked, stopped. Any of those three will do for me. If we are to be riven as a nation for the next god knows how many years better to do it within the EU rather than pissing against the wind outside it.

I read yesterday that 10 individuals (all millionaires) funded the majority of the Leave campaign. But no, it’s not a right wing coup. It’s the will of the people.
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Just coming to the end of the latest procurement exercise - just completed evaluation. I have just spent some days helping SG plan out to achieve reaching 100% (the ministerial commitment) - it is difficult (and not cost-effective) to get fibre to some postcodes - but I guess you know that.

Has your postcode received SF capability yet? SG do provide a website that allows you to enter your postcode and check where you are on the schedule you know? If you struggle with that I can do a search to help you.

"Binned, revoked, stopped.." you say - should you not add '..completed, concluded, ended, finalised, etc." to that

If your aim is indeed to see an end to the nation being riven - then surely you should not stop at outcomes that only satisfy the minority vote?

If you can be balanced and objective - you should perhaps view the news today with 'grudging' admiration - it looks that Boris is going to act to bring this to an end at last
 
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A black day for British democracy.

If this is allowed to happen, any legislation that takes the whim of Boris can be hung from the Brexit flagpole.
It's the same strategy used by previous dictators, "The people voted for X and we'll need to do Y in order to deliver X".

Think it couldn't happen?
What if Boris decides we should join the Eurasian Economic Union? Never heard of it? Look it up. Putin's masterplan to take over Europe. Putin's fascistic ambitions for Russian Imperialist expansion are repeating what happened 80 years ago, only then it was called Lebensraum.

Boris was elected by 90,000 from the Blue Rinse Army. We don't need a new Queen's Speech. A Queen's Speech opens a new session of Parliament annually or after a General Election. This parliament was elected on 8 June 2017. It was not elected in July 2019. The "reset" argument could be used anytime any PM wanted to introduce any legislation without parliamentary scrutiny.

Think it couldn't happen? What about if Boris wanted to allow a USA trade deal that allowed access to providing NHS services?

This attempt to bypass parliament isn't about brexit, that's just the easy rallying call. It's an attempt to break 300+ years of parliamentary government.

OK, so UK's parliament system isn't perfect, but I wouldn't want to see it thrown out at the whim of Boris and his Blue Rinse Army. Last time something similar happened they wore brown shirts.
 
Blue Hefner said:
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Except it’s not a precedent is it, from guido .......

The news of Boris’s planned prorogation has naturally sent Remainers into hysterics, calling the move “undemocratic“, “outrageous” and comparing the PM to a “tin pot dictator” – all for using a bog-standard procedural technique.

prorogation has historically been used by Attlee, Major and Canadian PM Stephen Harper for political purposes. The move is even less surprising when taking into account the UK is currently enjoying the longest Parliamentary session ever since 1653, so a Queen’s Speech is long overdue.

it would be helpful to remind everyone that John major used it which he used to cover up the cash for questions scandal – lasted from the March 21 until the 1997 General Election: a period of 6 weeks, compare this to today’s announced prorogation that will result in Parliament losing only 4 sitting days
 
Until someone can write down how the country can be measurably better off, within an agreed time table then this whole thing should be called off. But seen as though no one can do that, let's just accept the current WA and accept that we are no longer a country we would like to think we are - it has been a cock up from start to finish so let's just put it down to experience

The idea that No-deal is an end point is ridiculous. Companies are going to go bust directly as a result of this(Source: J.Hunt 2019), is it really worth it. Really? Those that will still be in work will be in such insure jobs they will accept a lowering of standards and job security. Food will be more expensive so those with cash can buy the good stuff we import(as farms will be run down due to tariffs (source: Gove, Minford et al) and those who are skint will have to make do with the shit stuff loaded with sugar and goodness knows what else - Liz Truss is a supported by the IEA and they are quite happy for us to kill ourselves based on 'free choice'.

If you can't see it know then you never will
 
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