Another new Brexit thread

[George Hannah]

I don't know. There must be a reason why someone thinks offering it makes sense - at a guess, it's to pre-empt what appears to be a likely GE this autumn, and cover until the end of it. It seems to make sense to make the offer before any no-confidence motions, as it's a lot tidier.

It's just more nonsense, muddying the waters and, as you suggest, encouraging their Remainer allies' attempts to kill Brexit completely via a second referendum/GE

 

[Rascal]

Now that I have answered at length on the reasons why many on the left did not vote leave, I wondered if any of you on the right who voted leave can explain to me how being anti freedom of movement fits with free market principles or if you are more of a libertarian leaver how do you square that off with abolishing freedoms. Why would the pro-capitalist right want to leave a pro-capitalist club, it seems strange to me and wondered if anyone can answer it?

It is one of the strange contradictions of Brexit that many on the left support a pro-capitalist union whilst many on the right are against a pro-capitalist union.

No soundbites or mindless rhetoric, be honest how you balance that contradiction.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

It's just more nonsense, muddying the waters and, as you suggest, encouraging their Remainers allies' attempts to kill Brexit completely via a second referendum/GE

Except for the conspiracy theory, and the nonsense bit, and the muddying the waters bit, yes.

Or:
The UK are about to suspend their parliament for 5 weeks, so let's set out the EU position beforehand, so there isn't an awkward change afterwards.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Now that I have answered at length on the reasons why many on the left did not vote leave, I wondered if any of you on the right who voted leave can explain to me how being anti freedom of movement fits with free market principles or if you are more of a libertarian leaver how do you square that off with abolishing freedoms. Why would the pro-capitalist right want to leave a pro-capitalist club, it seems strange to me and wondered if anyone can answer it?

It is one of the strange contradictions of Brexit that many on the left support a pro-capitalist union whilst many on the right are against a pro-capitalist union.

No soundbites or mindless rhetoric, be honest how you balance that contradiction.

I don't know. Maybe the EU wasn't the problem?

 

[George Hannah]

I await them saying no need for a hard border either.

Guaranteed - we should abandon our own economic and political interest and stay in the EU solely for the benefit of an independent Scotland and the convenience of 27 other countries, especially the Irish and the Germans.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Guaranteed - we should abandon our own economic and political interest and stay in the EU solely for the benefit of an independent Scotland and the convenience of 27 other countries, especially the Irish and the Germans.

They're your citizens.

 

[BobKowalski]

Our Shadow Chancellor mocking the actual Chancellor. Has a point to be fair.

‘Would be better if Dominic Cummings came along next week to present the Spending Review as he’s obviously in charge of the Treasury as well as No10.If you can’t speak without his permission & can’t even decide your own staffing you’re hardly the Chancellor’

 

[BobKowalski]

Guaranteed - we should abandon our own economic and political interest and stay in the EU solely for the benefit of an independent Scotland and the convenience of 27 other countries, especially the Irish and the Germans.

You mean ‘the loyal British Irish citizens of NI can do one’.

 

[AlexWilliamsGloves]

Guaranteed - we should abandon our own economic and political interest and stay in the EU solely for the benefit of an independent Scotland and the convenience of 27 other countries, especially the Irish and the Germans.

What about the Northern Irish?

 

[blueinsa]

Our Shadow Chancellor mocking the actual Chancellor. Has a point to be fair.

‘Would be better if Dominic Cummings came along next week to present the Spending Review as he’s obviously in charge of the Treasury as well as No10.If you can’t speak without his permission & can’t even decide your own staffing you’re hardly the Chancellor’

Problem with that is someone will remind him that a communist, Milne is directing their policies.

I’m sure the Marxist loves it though.

 

[George Hannah]

Except for the conspiracy theory, and the nonsense bit, and the muddying the waters bit, yes.
Or:The UK are about to suspend their parliament for 5 weeks, so let's set out the EU position beforehand, so there isn't an awkward change afterwards.

I did try to engage with you rationally, even finding a particle of your post I could agree with, then you turn out to be just another apologist for that miserable gang of corrupt, undemocratic, freeloaders and parasites. You are familiar with the idea a country should act in its own national interest I suppose and maybe also with the fact that, despite its declared intentions, the EU is not a country yet.

 

[George Hannah]

What about the Northern Irish?

What's the problem? Is Northern Ireland one of the other 27 EU member states?

 

[aguero93:20]

USA and China are countries bob.

Both are federations of states, not nation states. As is the EU.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

I did try to engage with you rationally, even finding a particle of your post I could agree with, then you turn out to be just another apologist for that miserable gang of corrupt, undemocratic, free loaders and parasites. You are familiar with the idea a country should act in its own national interest I suppose and maybe also with the fact that, despite its declared intentions, the EU is not a country yet.

What a bizarre response.

I disagreed with everything you wrote in that last post, and found it deliberately worded to prevent an astonishingly skewed perspective, so I pointed out the flaws and offered an alternative view. It can be viewed from one perspective that it could be an encouragement, but the EU are far more likely to be trying to keep their own position clear.

"Apologist" - good one, full on feeble Trumpian attempt to tar with bluster to convince the hard of thinking. The moon's made of cheese too, by the way.

The last bit - well, yes. But as you haven't linked it to anything I wrote, I'm not quite sure why you felt the need to write it. At no point have I said that the EU can impose this on the UK, or that they have the right to do so. Crack on.

 

[George Hannah]

Both are federations of states, not nation states. As is the EU.

The EU is not a state of any variety but from little acorns .. eh? Like the Federal Republic of Germany.

 

[aguero93:20]

The EU is not a state of any variety but from little acorns .. eh? Like the Federal Republic of Germany.

It's a federation of states P, although a looser one with more individual state autonomy than the other 2. It has been for nearly 30 years. Let's call a spade a spade eh?

 

[AlexWilliamsGloves]

What's the problem? Is Northern Ireland one of the other 27 EU member states?

No, but you reference Scotland as if they were....as most English people just refer to NI as Ireland....was just looking for clarification :-)

 

[George Hannah]

What a bizarre response.

I disagreed with everything you wrote in that last post, and found it deliberately worded to prevent an astonishingly skewed perspective, so I pointed out the flaws and offered an alternative view. It can be viewed from one perspective that it could be an encouragement, but the EU are far more likely to be trying to keep their own position clear.

"Apologist" - good one, full on feeble Trumpian attempt to tar with bluster to convince the hard of thinking. The moon's made of cheese too, by the way.

The last bit - well, yes. But as you haven't linked it to anything I wrote, I'm not quite sure why you felt the need to write it. At no point have I said that the EU can impose this on the UK, or that they have the right to do so. Crack on.

I specialize in the bizarre, it helps when trying to understand the intricacies of many of this thread's contributors. Please disabuse me of the impression I gained that you feel it is appropriate for the EU to 'pre-empt' a member state's democratic processes.

No, but you reference Scotland as if they were....at most English people just refer to NI as Ireland....was just looking for clarification :-)

Sorry, I was musing in the land of SNP dreams.

 

[George Hannah]

It's a federation of states P, although a looser one with more individual state autonomy than the other 2. It has been for nearly 30 years. Let's call a spade a spade eh?

Indeed, and if we do so we need to call the EU a community or if you prefer a confederation, it is not de jure a federation.
It is currently a union of sovereign states whereas a federation is a single federal state with a central government, consisting of a number of partially self-governing federated states. (I am reliably informed :-) )

 

[Bluemanc100]

Hang on, let’s go back. You said it was the feeling now.

Not only are you now guessing, you’re guessing from a starting point of us making a success of leaving, which there is no evidence that will actually be the case, quite the opposite.

I’m not so sure that others will be keen to leave when they witness us leaving without a deal and crippling our own economy.

We've already damaged the economy and certainly our reputation with the piss poor handling of Brexit so far. I have always been a realist (pessimist actually) and maybe it's simply wishful thinking but on Brexit I am actually quite hopeful we can make a success of things once out.

I see no option but to be optimistic, the alternative is far to bloody depressing to contemplate.