Another new Brexit thread

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ric
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I am definitely more leave with a deal or revoke than I am leave with a deal or no deal.

However what I am really confused why nobody is pushing revoke other than the Lib Dem’s. I am still not sure what the rebels want to do once no deal is blocked. Once no deal is off the table the eu are not going to budge any more than they are currently so what is the practical way forward

General election aside of course ...
 
west didsblue said:
Another lie.
It was an advisory referendum the government decided to honour in spite of the proven irregularities.
Click to expand...

And it should not be forgotten that the advisory status is what stops it being challenged in court. If it was binding it would be challenged and there is every chance it would be declared void because 1 it was not specific enough and 2 the Leave side cheated on an unprecedented scale.
 
TheRemainsOfTheDave said:
The reference to Britain standing alone comes from the moment that we were the only European nation left (at war) that had not been invaded by axis forces (except for the Channel Islands). It doesn't mean we claim to have won the war ourselves which is what you wrote and have suggested is a myth.
Click to expand...

You listen to people on tv and that is not the way they view it - we won out alone. They don't say we stood alone they say we won two world wars alone
 
According to the BBC, Johnson could theoretically go to the EU to ask for an extension, as instructed by parliament, and then veto his own request.
 
George Hannah said:
both Cameron replacements ramped up their Brexit commitment - 'No deal is better than a bad deal' and 'October 31st Do or Die'. Labour's 2017 manifesto committed them to a trade policy inconsistent with any deal including a customs union and a single market. Nothing has changed since Article 50 was voted for.

Suspending standing order 14 so that the executive lost control parliamentary business was ruled unconstiutional by the Rules Committee but the Speaker ignored them. There should not have been a vote, nor should there be one this his afternoon under SO 24, the rebel motion is to amend the WA to rule out no deal but there is no substantive motion before the house. The contrived majority supporting Remain is being allowed to change the settled will Parliament as enacted in the WA. The 'coup' charge is clearly false, prorogation is entirely lawful and in accordance with precedent.
Click to expand...

A lot has changed since we triggered A50. For starters most people assumed we had a plan. We didn’t. What we had was cheap slogans. Three years later and all we still have is cheap slogans. Cheap slogans are no basis for a complex international negotiation. A lesson we seemingly refuse to learn. Labour committed themselves to leaving with a deal. They ruled out leaving with no deal. The current row is about leaving with no deal.

Parliament is sovereign. If Parliament decides to take back control and change its own rules on how it operates who are we, or the executive, to say otherwise? Isn’t that what we voted for?
 
George Hannah said:
On 29 March 2017, the United Kingdom legislated to invoke Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union which began the member state's withdrawal, commonly known as Brexit, from the European Union. Are you pretending to be stupid or is it real?
Click to expand...

That’s not enacting the Withdrawal Agreement is it?

It’s better to understand what you’re saying yourself before labelling other people stupid.
 
George Hannah said:
On 29 March 2017, the United Kingdom legislated to invoke Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union which began the member state's withdrawal, commonly known as Brexit, from the European Union. Are you pretending to be stupid or is it real?
Click to expand...
Article 50 isn't the Withdrawal Agreement though, simply the notice of intent to withdraw.
 
kevin horlocks wand said:
I am definitely more leave with a deal or revoke than I am leave with a deal or no deal.

However what I am really confused why nobody is pushing revoke other than the Lib Dem’s. I am still not sure what the rebels want to do once no deal is blocked. Once no deal is off the table the eu are not going to budge any more than they are currently so what is the practical way forward

General election aside of course ...
Click to expand...

Because revoking won't solve anything, it has gone past that. The EU wouldn't trust us, the 'if only' brigade will be out in force and the Leave campaign would start immediately
 
Think most Europeans while initially sad about us wanting to leave now just want us to hurry up and fuck off. And to be honest who can blame them. We have caused massive uncertainty for everyone.
 
Gaudion M said:
And it should not be forgotten that the advisory status is what stops it being challenged in court. If it was binding it would be challenged and there is every chance it would be declared void because 1 it was not specific enough and 2 the Leave side cheated on an unprecedented scale.
Click to expand...

How can you hold a binding referendum which includes any specificness?

The EU would not engage in negotiations or talk of a deal before we triggered A50 so there was nothing else to ask but do you want to leave or not.

A referendum can only be binding if it can be bound to law, IE, do you want to make this law or not etc.

Even on the current question and if you could make it binding, how can you measure whether we have left the EU or not?
 
kevin horlocks wand said:
I am definitely more leave with a deal or revoke than I am leave with a deal or no deal.

However what I am really confused why nobody is pushing revoke other than the Lib Dem’s. I am still not sure what the rebels want to do once no deal is blocked. Once no deal is off the table the eu are not going to budge any more than they are currently so what is the practical way forward

General election aside of course ...
Click to expand...

Going back many moons I suggested that we would have to go through many cycles of shit before brexit is scraped. The intelligent political strategists understand that Brexit will only ever be a mess and wont deliver anything like what it's ardent supporters expect but the anti EU propaganda campaign has been running for so long and continues to run so many people will continue to consider themselves leavers even when it is blindingly obvious brexit will be a disaster. For that reason we have to drag ourselves through the mud for long enough for people to either develop a greater understanding of the issues or just give up caring enough to want things back to normal. That is only achieved through years of brexit crap, we've had 3 already. Only when mind sets change will it be safe territory for a Tory or labour leader to propose and push through revoking A50.

We have got to the point where a soft brexit is dead, a deal is almost dead. It is just the concept of no deal that needs to die and then there is only one solution left.

We will get there (or do something very stupid).
 
Blue Hefner said:
Because revoking won't solve anything, it has gone past that. The EU wouldn't trust us, the 'if only' brigade will be out in force and the Leave campaign would start immediately
Click to expand...

Ok so what’s your solution then?

Either side are going to continue to get excited whatever happens
 
George Hannah said:
No, and what the Fishguard invasion fiasco has to do with being conquered is baffling. The Swedes were overrun by the Germans and collaborated out of fear like Vichy France. No other European country apart from Portugal, our oldest ally, has successfully protected its democratic values, whicj is why we should not give them up. I really don't know what this talk of 'being treated as an exceptional case' is all about. Treated by who - the counterpart in a negotiation? We pursue our national interests and other countries pursue theirs - using the EU for that specific purpose - I repeat, their own national interests. We are exceptional and you should be proud of that.
Click to expand...
You're exceptional.
Exceptionally ridiculous.
 
robbieh said:
Think most Europeans while initially sad about us wanting to leave now just want us to hurry up and fuck off. And to be honest who can blame them. We have caused massive uncertainty for everyone.
Click to expand...
Yes the same Europeans that let the BBC fork out large sums of money to put on the “Song Contest” where the rest of Europe show just how much they actually hate us. Yes they like us to plough in large amounts of cash into the central coffers but don’t kid yourself that they actually like us.
 
cibaman said:
According to the BBC, Johnson could theoretically go to the EU to ask for an extension, as instructed by parliament, and then veto his own request.
Click to expand...
Which is what I posted earlier, it needs all members agreement, what happens if he does this will
be a right laugh.
 
Vic said:
I can't find the offending clause but give over with the "intentionally seeks to harm" our negotiating position. We don't actually seem to have a negotiating position - it seems to be emerging that there is no grand plan.

This is about Parliament taking back control. The clause (if KHW has reported it correctly) is just saying that if Parliament wants an extension and the EU says yes, you can't have a majority-less PM stopping it. The alternative to that clause would be putting your trust in Boris Johnson and you don't have to be an EU acolyte to think that's not wise.
Click to expand...
Your English is really slipping today - perhaps you are less confident at the moment than previously

Let me help you

Give over you say?

1. Are they doing it intentionally - without any shadow of a doubt

2. Will it harm the UK’s negotiating position - without any shadow of a doubt

Not difficult mate - just objectivity required
 
Last edited:
robbieh said:
Think most Europeans while initially sad about us wanting to leave now just want us to hurry up and fuck off. And to be honest who can blame them. We have caused massive uncertainty for everyone.
Click to expand...
Yet you're still fighting to stay.

Start promoting a "leave with a deal" attitude and this will soon be over and we can all move forward, with only the hardline extremists on the remain and leave side being the ones disappointed, whilst the vast majority of us, who've had enough, want it to be concluded. Staying in only keeps the issue rolling on, as does a no deal brexit. Leave with a deal and end this political farce.
 
Gray said:
Yes the same Europeans that let the BBC fork out large sums of money to put on the “Song Contest” where the rest of Europe show just how much they actually hate us. Yes they like us to plough in large amounts of cash into the central coffers but don’t kid yourself that they actually like us.
Click to expand...
Song contest!
Smh
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top