Another new Brexit thread

[bluethrunthru]

That's the point i was making. After the austerity & the mess the Conservatives have made of the UK this last ten years, Labour should have wiped the floor with them. In that respect, Corbyn is a liability, however the utterly crap Tories are making him look better than he actually is.

I actually agree with most of Corbyn's philosophies (apart from Europe), but the way he packages himself and comes across makes it difficult for Middle England moderates to vote for him. The biggest fear the Tories have is if Labour wake up & sniff the coffee & replace Corbyn. That's when you'd see them shit themselves. However, Corbynista's would rather see Corbyn in No 10, rather than the Labour Party.

I asked one of his disciples, if Corbyn was to stay in power for the next 5-6 years & still not gain the keys to No 10, at what point would you want a change. She couldn't answer, because for her she supports Corbyn over Labour, albeit that another Labour candidate would be infinitely more electable. Go figure.

Personally I am a Labour man so the incumbent gets my backing. I just find it laughable that he is a scarecrow, useless, antisemitic, IRA and Hamas sympathiser, Marxist, all that and more thrown at him by the right yet he is still there with a strong core of support and despite the polls despite the fact he is unelectable Johnson and the rest keep saying if they lose he will be PM. He must be some sort of credible threat OR they need to make their minds up.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Who's hacked this former tory youth chairs account?

He has a point though - denying Johnson a GE would be a masterstroke - people forget through his long life in politics Corbyn has been around committee's, votes, machinations and so on - he will understand strategy and knows how to play a game and a long game. Cummings may have tried to lay a trap and may well have walked into one set by Corbyn instead.

 

[Dribble]

Personally I am a Labour man so the incumbent gets my backing. I just find it laughable that he is a scarecrow, useless, antisemitic, IRA and Hamas sympathiser, Marxist, all that and more thrown at him by the right yet he is still there with a strong core of support and despite the polls despite the fact he is unelectable Johnson and the rest keep saying if they lose he will be PM. He must be some sort of credible threat OR they need to make their minds up.

Like I said, the rabble that are the Tories are helping keep Corbyn in touch. I'd love to see a moderate labour government in power with a savvy leader. Unfortunately, Corbyn is neither. However his dislike of Trump and the USA's bully boy tactics is OK by me.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Ha ha ha







B i t e Y o u r B r u m

@BiteYourBrum

Can’t wait to see how the Mail Online somehow turn this Brexit vote tonight into Meghan Markle’s fault tomorrow.. #BrexitShambles
10:33 PM · Sep 3, 2019·Twitter for iPhone

 

[bluethrunthru]

There's one happy Tory tonight lol

https://twitter.com/DCCCNC1

Replying to
@bbclaurak
Well, Theresa's looking a bit more chipper these days, isn't she? #BrexitShambles




12:23 AM · Sep 4, 2019·Twitter Web App
1
Like

 

[Vic]

Yeah - they declined to make a sworn statement to court.............hmmmm............wonder why that would be? Another issue with Cummings cavalier approach and Johnsons detached association with the truth is if they are proven to be lying they are in real trouble. The Queen assents to the prorogation based on the info provided by her PM. If that advice is untrue then they have lied to the monarch whilst in an office of state............gulp !...............you see the problem with liars is the more they get away with it the more they think they are invincible...............they usually get caught in the end.....by their own lies.

Lying to the monarch is not illegal.

 

[Dribble]

He has a point though - denying Johnson a GE would be a masterstroke - people forget through his long life in politics Corbyn has been around committee's, votes, machinations and so on - he will understand strategy and knows how to play a game and a long game. Cummings may have tried to lay a trap and may well have walked into one set by Corbyn instead.

To be fair, it was Tony Blair who told him to watch out for the Boris stunt first thing on monday morning. Up until then, Comrade Corbyn was in Salford gearing up for an election unaware of the trap ahead of him.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Lying to the monarch is not illegal.

It is when presenting advice to the monarch for her to act upon. She has given royal assent to something based on a lie possibly.

 

[mat]

 

[bluethrunthru]

1848 Treason felony act

3. Offences herein mentioned declared to be felonies

If any person whatsoever shall, within the United Kingdom or without, compass, imagine, invent, devise, or intend to deprive or depose our Most Gracious Lady the Queen, from the style, honour, or royal name of the imperial crown of the United Kingdom, or of any other of her Majesty’s dominions and countries, or to levy war against her Majesty, within any part of the United Kingdom, in order by force or constraint to compel her to change her measures or counsels, or in order to put any force or constraint upon or in order to intimidate or overawe both Houses or either House of Parliament, or any other of her Majesty's dominions or countries under the obeisance of her Majesty, and such compassings, imaginations, inventions, devices, or intentions, or any of them, shall express, utter, or declare, by publishing any printing or writing ... or by any overt act or deed, every person so offending shall be guilty of felony, and being convicted thereof shall be liable ... to be transported beyond the seas for the term of his or her natural life.
Penal transportation was abolished in 1868,[8] leaving life imprisonment as the maximum sentence.

 

[mcfc1632]

Even if a deal is put in front of them and supporting legislation backtracked, it would take weeks to get the necessary done. Yet Johnson says he's seeking a deal, he'll be out on the 31st deal or no deal and then suspends parliament denying them the time to pass the legislation needed for either no deal or a deal. Yet you believe him...

Yeah yeah - it is not rock science!!

I am thinking that you are just being deliberately obtuse

If the current shenanigans were not going on and the EU - for the first time - had to face the prospect of a no-deal then we would see where they can be pushed to - or not.

There is enough time to place a deal before the HoC for a vote of endorsement or not - and should we then have a deal that has been agreed with the EU and accepted by the house then agreeing a small extension to achieve passage would be readily done

What had been done was to create a situation where:

a) the EU had to (effectively - probably via the PD) withdraw the backstop or face a no-deal outcome and

b) if the EU did that the HoC had to accept that deal or face a no-deal outcome

Anyway - that was the intention - as expected the acolytes have been successful in bringing forward legislation that comprehensibly undermines the UK and therefore the benefit is reduced to at least forcing into full public view the reality of the extent to which the acolytes, on behalf of the EU, will go to shackle the UK

 

[mcfc1632]

Someone or something might be at fault for the 18% drop in value since the referendum.

Groan - more prevarication and distraction form an easy to understand point

 

[mcfc1632]

So in summary, instead of answering my question, you'd rather nitpick & fudge around the edges. OK, for the 4th time of asking:

The Irish border is the issue.

The backstop was an agreed solution.

You quoted:

"Certainly the EU have no need to find a solution for the backstop - and neither have the UK"

So why would the EU need to find a solution for the backstop, when the backstop was their agreed solution with the UK government for the Irish border question?

I'll sit here patiently whilst you dig up an answer which makes sense.



Also, whilst you're at it, can you explain what your views on the EU were in the early 90s, & why?

If you cannot understand plain English and grasp simple facts that is your issue not mine - and I have quickly developed a view that I do not give a single fuck about what you demand - for me you can just do one.

 

[mcfc1632]

I'll put it simply mate
No Deal we are told will be no problem, 'just a few bumps in the road' according to the Govester.
Why then bother using the threat of it as a negotiating lever.
Why not just err.....leave?

Oh - you were just being a bit silly

Clearly no-deal will cause some significant issues and have to be dealt with

But the issues for the EU are of greater scope than logistical bumps in the road. The EU wish to have the UK under their regulatory control and they want the money

I strongly suspect that - should the EU ever face the genuine prospect of a walk-away option then we would see the backstop fettered - probably through the drafting of the PD

But of course their acolytes at Westminster will ensure that they never have to face that prospect

 

[mcfc1632]

EU don't want a no deal any more than us.
But how can we try to negotiate the best deal possible for us, using no deal as an (unwanted) option with parliament doing what they are doing now. We are having a boxing match wearing a straightjacket

So simple - so factual

The answer is that they are seeking to stop Brexit altogether rather than just No-Deal

They have just been flushed out from their hiding places by the stance that the PM had taken. They - and the EU - had expected that they could just let it drag on for a couple more years through extension and extension with nothing being achieved and eventually another referendum could be brought forward to secure the 'right answer' - as is the EU proven method.

They have had to abandon that tactic and show their true colours

 

[Rascal]

Not unexpected. I am starting to loathe these politicians. That’s chukka fella posting selfies. What a tosser. They all are.

I don't think they all are pal.

Its dangerous times and if we lose all trust in politicians who knows where the fuck that may end up.

 

[Rascal]

Is it also wrong that I fancy Jo Swinson?

Yes.

 

[mcfc1632]

Oh dear - someone so desperate he has to dream up quotes to apportion to others. Quite sad really - just to be clear in case you are still hallucinating that bit in the quotation marks that you wrote - I didn't - you did.

Iit is obvious that I wrote it

It is obvious that perhaps you should have done - given the bollocks you claimed yesterday which was proven to be - well utterly bollocks

Maybe you will think twice before making utterly false claims in the future - although I will not hold my breath

 

[MillionMilesAway]

dunno - would be interesting times. For starters we know HMQ was angry at being dragged into politics - to find it had happened on a false premise........no idea what the punishment is but I bet Liz would want the full force of the law brought to bear. My guess is Johnson would see to it Cummings is made the fall guy

We don't know what was said at Balmoral. They may have been more open, knowing that it won't become public.

 

[urban genie]

I don't think they all are pal.

Its dangerous times and if we lose all trust in politicians who knows where the fuck that may end up.

With chancers and cranks like farage getting legitimacy to manipulate for personal gain.

Or cunts like yaxley and goddard able to nornalise racism and xenophobia.

Unfortunately we are probably beyond the stage where trust is lost by many and have been since new labour abandoned the south west, midlands and the north to concentrate on london and the financial services, cameron and gideon then decimated it with austerity and the fuckers in westminster fiddled their expenses so unapoligetically.