Separate majorities North and South. Even in the current climate it's polling around 50% up North and I'd rather we didn't hang our hat on a 51% result up there.Well why hasn’t it been triggered? If that was the case the day after the GFA they could have. Isn’t the population of Ireland 3m? Don’t understand.
What?? - a denial of the truth right there??That's because Remainers are now the majority. It's you that doesn't want to test that.
tut tut, quoting my name without the @. I couldn't give a toss what Brexit options are on a confirmatory referendum as long as Remain is. You know my strongly held views about the validity of the first referendum, I have banged on about it enough. Good luck with finding a single Brexit option that would carry the country. You have had three years to do that and singularly failed. BTW, love the 'democracy deniers' straight out of Boris's play book.Maybe not, but probably in the hope that the democracy deniers can be stymied.
But what Saddleworth is suggesting is just the typical Remainer approach - not democracy - just get Brexit cancelled, but preferably in a way that it can be seen as the will of the people - so our duplicity is not too obvious
Let's see the options he suggests:
1. An utterly shit deal that anyone caring for the UK's best interests could not vote for Vs
2. Remaining
Yep - that should have loaded the dice sufficiently in the favour of those that simply wish to stop Brexit - not even Remain Vs No-Deal
Now how would Remainers on here view a Confirmatory vote where the options were:
1. An utterly shit deal that anyone caring for the UK's best interests could not vote for Vs
2. No-Deal
Because that would be a lot more honest, delivering against the 1st referendum and democratic - but, a lot of the time, it seems democracy is only relevant when it supports what Remainers want
What - a denial of the truth right there??
Let's have a GE - what you guys scared of?
Or is it that you only want a process that is totally loaded in the Remain favour?
You Remainers seem to be very very concerned about a 'level playing field' process.
It's incredible that so many don't understand that simple fact.We’re for a GE but after the bill has passed and the deadline of the October 31st has gone.
Corbyn has the choice of going for a GE now, Johnson sweeping up the no deal vote to get him over the line and crashing out and destroying the country or waiting a month, letting the Tories implode and then winning.
He’s not stupid and hasn’t fallen for the trap.
Not sure that you have thought this trough to any great depth - genuinely no offence meantWell a significant element of Tory support falls broadly into the "one nation" category and he's already managing to alienate them and he's fooling himself if he thinks he can get an overall majority without their votes.
It's incredible that so many don't understand that simple fact.
Or maybe they pretend they don't understand because of their predilection for the floppy haired buffoon.
What - a denial of the truth right there??
Let's have a GE - what you guys scared of?
Or is it that you only want a process that is totally loaded in the Remain favour?
You Remainers seem to be very very concerned about a 'level playing field' process.
I already did that mate. Your memory is poor.
The points you make are predictions not facts. Boris often makes the same mistake.
Depriving the offensiveness of oxygen seems a sensible approachWhat the fuck is wrong with you pal? you're a nazi obsessed fruitcake, I responded with a request for
your reasons for staying, just to counter this arrogant demand you keep squawking about, I don't really give a toss though, so if you'd kindly
desist from asking again, I would be most grateful.
Basically, offity fuck.
You are replying to the wrong person or confusedSee here we are again ..... the 52% ignoring the 48%...... The majority of remainers I know and a fair few on here want the outcome of the referendum to be honoured(that's Democracy) ... what we don't want is a NO DEAL BREXIT and a DISORDERLY WITHDRAWAL FROM THE EU....because that will f*ck up any chance of a trade deal with the largest trading bloc in the world going forward.
Labour have played a blinder so far.
You are replying to the wrong person or confused
The point I was making was that the proposal was to have a totally rigged referendum which would ensure that the views of the 52 % would be ignored
Given what you have said that should offend you - no?
No - just confirmed that he is proper ignorant and abusiveAww, did the nasty man waffle on too much..?
You forget, the people have heard this no mark crying for an election for years, now he's been offered one he's bottled it. Yes, he's come up with some long winded excuse but this will go right over people's heads and he will come across as a bit of a twat again. If he wants to wait until after October 31st, he will be blamed not Boris, because anyone with a brain can see that Boris has tried his utmost to deliver on his promises and Remainers in Parliament have scuppered leaving without a deal and removed his leverage to get an improved deal. The whole thing makes me piss my sides because sooner or later a reckoning is coming and Leavers have watched on in disbelief as their vote to Leave has been trashed. Well the use of a Parliamentary majority to get what you want works both ways and I hope you're still banging on about Parliamentary sovereignty if there's a Leave majority with a mandate for no deal after the next election.We’re for a GE but after the bill has passed and the deadline of the October 31st has gone.
Corbyn has the choice of going for a GE now, Johnson sweeping up the no deal vote to get him over the line and crashing out and destroying the country or waiting a month, letting the Tories implode and then winning.
He’s not stupid and hasn’t fallen for the trap.
When you say a rigged referendum, do you mean like last time when the winning side broke numerous electoral commission rules?You are replying to the wrong person or confused
The point I was making was that the proposal was to have a totally rigged referendum which would ensure that the views of the 52 % would be ignored
Given what you have said that should offend you - no?
Do you not understand either or are you pretending?You forget, the people have heard this no mark crying for an election for years, now he's been offered one he's bottled it. Yes, he's come up with some long winded excuse but this will go right over people's heads and he will come across as a bit of a twat again. If he wants to wait until after October 31st, he will be blamed not Boris, because anyone with a brain can see that Boris has tried his utmost to deliver on his promises and Remainers in Parliament have scuppered leaving without a deal and removed his leverage to get an improved deal. The whole thing makes me piss my sides because sooner or later a reckoning is coming and Leavers have watched on in disbelief as their vote to Leave has been trashed. Well the use of a Parliamentary majority to get what you want works both ways and I hope you're still banging on about Parliamentary sovereignty if there's a Leave majority with a mandate for no deal after the next election.
The really funny thing is that if you guys get you're own way and we end up Remaining after voting to Leave, Britain will continue to send Eurosceptic MEPs to Brussels, our membership will be hugely controversial and toxic, and sooner or later there will be another crisis, whether political or economic and the Leavers who's vote to Leave has been ignored will still be around to say I told you so.
Sorry - you are IMO simply speaking from your EU POVThe problem with the referendum at the very start was it's intention right? It was set up as a opportunist political move, not a honest consultation of the public that was well defined and to be binding in the first place. The lack of detail in the question of Brexit is whats arguably creating a load of issue's now, but then it was opportunist to ask te question so vaguely so to have plenty of leeway afterwards as to fill in "what the people wanted"? Brexit was intended as a vehicle of powerplay rather than one for clear and expedient political resolution?
To give credit to the camp that is against no-deal: Parliament using it's representative legitimacy to forbid a no deal isn't nessecarily perpendicular to legitimacy of a binding non binding referendum to have a Brexit, it simply uses parlements legitimacy to more narroly define what form of leaving is possible. To take a more rediculous example to prove the point: "what if some Brexiteers had propposed war with the EU as a means to exit it"? Would it infringe on the democrtic choice of the people trough a binding non binding referendum if parliament had excluded war as a form of Brexit? I think not???
You forget, the people have heard this no mark crying for an election for years, now he's been offered one he's bottled it. Yes, he's come up with some long winded excuse but this will go right over people's heads and he will come across as a bit of a twat again. If he wants to wait until after October 31st, he will be blamed not Boris, because anyone with a brain can see that Boris has tried his utmost to deliver on his promises and Remainers in Parliament have scuppered leaving without a deal and removed his leverage to get an improved deal. The whole thing makes me piss my sides because sooner or later a reckoning is coming and Leavers have watched on in disbelief as their vote to Leave has been trashed. Well the use of a Parliamentary majority to get what you want works both ways and I hope you're still banging on about Parliamentary sovereignty if there's a Leave majority with a mandate for no deal after the next election.
The really funny thing is that if you guys get you're own way and we end up Remaining after voting to Leave, Britain will continue to send Eurosceptic MEPs to Brussels, our membership will be hugely controversial and toxic, and sooner or later there will be another crisis, whether political or economic and the Leavers who's vote to Leave has been ignored will still be around to say I told you so.
Seriously? He's done nowt......anyone with a brain can see that Boris has tried his utmost to deliver on his promises ....
We’re for a GE but after the bill has passed and the deadline of the October 31st has gone.
Corbyn has the choice of going for a GE now, Johnson sweeping up the no deal vote to get him over the line and crashing out and destroying the country or waiting a month, letting the Tories implode and then winning.
He’s not stupid and hasn’t fallen for the trap.