Another new Brexit thread

[Saddleworth2]

Not to somebody who doesn't believe there are any drawbacks to EU membership, no.

I don’t believe that at all. It’s very imperfect but on balance better than being outside. Try again.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

I'm not sure about how our current make up of dairy/beef/ mixed herds are set up in terms of seeing our domestic market so it may all be bollocks from all sides. The biggest barrier to US imports may he our own supermarkets who currently pay farmers fuck all for their produce.

How would that work? Stopping the US from buying your beef by making it cheaper?[/QUOTE]
No, I meant imports of US beef. Not pretending I'm an expert on this btw, but currently it seems farming in the UK is fairly evenly helped/hindered by the EU depending on who you talk to. The supermarkets have the buying power to fuck farmers over. Can't see them driving a harder bargain on US producers tbh.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

I don’t believe that at all. It’s very imperfect but on balance better than being outside. Try again.

Fair enough. All those perceived imperfections would cease to exist if we left. There's your benefits. Also try Google - there are as many leave nutters as remain ones out there to help you with your choice. I get that you think the drawbacks are outweighed by benefits in your view and I fully respect that position btw.

 

[bluethrunthru]

quick google on biggest imorters of beef to the US of A has Ireland at number 11, Denmark at 14, Poland at 16, Italy at 18.

https://beef2live.com/story-beef-imports-ranking-countries-0-116237

I'm not sure about how our current make up of dairy/beef/ mixed herds are set up in terms of seeing our domestic market so it may all be bollocks from all sides. The biggest barrier to US imports may he our own supermarkets who currently pay farmers fuck all for their produce.[/QUOTE]

The biggest barrier to any exports to the US is Trump and his America First approach.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Beacon of light rascal. The problem is we have all been conditioned to pick a side and stick to it ro the point of refusing to countenance any other view but our own. We then just have to pick the echo chamber that best suits our view on the Internet to reassure ourselves that we are correct in our view. The truth is clearly that there are almost as many benefits and drawbacks to remain as leave. This is why we had a referendum instead of a govt policy, and it's also why the referendum was such a finely balanced result. To suggest though that the opposite view to your own may have merit has become modern day blasphemy, and it interests me who benefits from this shut down of thought/speech/ debate.

Forgive me when I say that is hypocritical. You refuse to describe your own views on the benefits of Brexit because you know it will open you up to intellectual scrutiny and yet you applaud @Rascal for suggesting each side should be honest. I have asked you what you believe the benefits of Brexit are. Are you going to refuse again because I may have a differing view?

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

I'm not sure about how our current make up of dairy/beef/ mixed herds are set up in terms of seeing our domestic market so it may all be bollocks from all sides. The biggest barrier to US imports may he our own supermarkets who currently pay farmers fuck all for their produce.

The biggest barrier to any exports to the US is Trump and his America First approach.[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure British beef exports to the US are a thing tbh. Selling sand to Arabs comes to mind.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Fair enough. All those perceived imperfections would cease to exist if we left. There's your benefits. Also try Google - there are as many leave nutters as remain ones out there to help you with your choice. I get that you think the drawbacks are outweighed by benefits in your view and I fully respect that position btw.

Jeez.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Jeez.

ha ha - cure your headache by chopping your own head off !!

 

[Deleted member 77198]

All these statements of doom and gloom about the UK resulting from capitalism is just nonsense and tedious. Sure things could be inproved further in many areas, but i really think you should check the figures out before you get on your soap box and moan about what is more likely to be actually your politically biased perception of things. I know it's a bitter pill to swallow for socialists but in reality things are better now than they ever have been in most respects for the majority of society in the UK. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...asuresofnationalwellbeingdashboard/2018-04-25

Quality of roads, congestion on roads, spending on transport up North, homelessness, white working class exam results (especially boys), white working class going to university (especially boys), drug taking, drug addiction, lack of social housing, lack of affordable housing, inner-city areas just immigrant dumping zones... ?

Also do zero hours contracts add to the statistics of more people employed?

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Forgive me when I say that is hypocritical. You refuse to describe your own views on the benefits of Brexit because you know it will open you up to intellectual scrutiny and yet you applaud @Rascal for suggesting each side should be honest. I have asked you what you believe the benefits of Brexit are. Are you going to refuse again because I may have a differing view?

I've said before mate, I just don't want to bore everyone by constantly banging on. Economically I see no short term benefit in Brexit and am basically persuaded by remain. I object to the federalist structure and expansionist direction of the EU and the way we have tip toed towards this since the 70's. As it becomes larger and more of a political than trading partnership I feel the voices of individual nations inevitably become diminished as does accountability of the Democratic process. The arrogance in impossing a one size fits all solution to fiscal policy is clear in what has happened in the Mediterranean economies and I believe poses a serious threat to peace and security.
On a positive note, I honestly don't care about immigration or anything written on the side of a bus, and enjoy the convenience of a single currency.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Quality of roads, congestion on roads, spending on transport up North, homelessness, white working class exam results (especially boys), white working class going to university (especially boys), drug taking, drug addiction, lack of social housing, lack of affordable housing... ?

Also do zero hours contracts add to the statistics of more people employed?

I’m not having that!
You forgot knife crime and endemic poverty.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Jeez.

Thank you for your reply, I can now see that you are correct. Sorry.

 

[Saddleworth2]

I've said before mate, I just don't want to bore everyone by constantly banging on. Economically I see no short term benefit in Brexit and am basically persuaded by remain. I object to the federalist structure and expansionist direction of the EU and the way we have tip toed towards this since the 70's. As it becomes larger and more of a political than trading partnership I feel the voices of individual nations inevitably become diminished as does accountability of the Democratic process. The arrogance in impossing a one size fits all solution to fiscal policy is clear in what has happened in the Mediterranean economies and I believe poses a serious threat to peace and security.
On a positive note, I honestly don't care about immigration or anything written on the side of a bus, and enjoy the convenience of a single currency.

So future risk despite our record of opting out of what we don’t like + your uncomfortable about aspects of the Greek situation. Both could be debated as there are different sides to each. Against that you seem to admit that at least in the short term the economy will be blown by an unquantified degree. Fair enough. That wasn’t painful was it? One of my main reasons not to want to leave (I had three or four that were pretty important to me) was the physical, intellectual, and financial cost of leaving. When your wiring is so deeply integrated it was never going to be a quick with one mighty bound they were free. At the start I thought 5 years from exiting, now I think more than 10. I believed w3 didn’t have either the political bandwidth or the change/ programme management competence to attempt this. It’s not over but I think indications are that I was proved correct on that one.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Thank you for your reply, I can now see that you are correct. Sorry.

Good man :-)

 

[aguero93:20]

How would that work? Stopping the US from buying your beef by making it cheaper?

No, I meant imports of US beef. Not pretending I'm an expert on this btw, but currently it seems farming in the UK is fairly evenly helped/hindered by the EU depending on who you talk to. The supermarkets have the buying power to fuck farmers over. Can't see them driving a harder bargain on US producers tbh.[/QUOTE]
That list was imports to the u.s., not by them.

 

[west didsblue]

The unvarnished truth is indeed hard to handle for those in favour of handing over our government to an unelected cartel.

Are you being deliberately ironic when we’ve already got a minority government with a leader elected by 0.15% of the population taking instructions from just 15% of his own MPs and the head of a limited company masquerading as a political party that has no MPs at all.
You’re quite amusing sometimes.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

So future risk despite our record of opting out of what we don’t like + your uncomfortable about aspects of the Greek situation. Both could be debated as there are different sides to each. Against that you seem to admit that at least in the short term the economy will be blown by an unquantified degree. Fair enough. That wasn’t painful was it? One of my main reasons not to want to leave (I had three or four that were pretty important to me) was the physical, intellectual, and financial cost of leaving. When your wiring is so deeply integrated it was never going to be a quick with one mighty bound they were free. At the start I thought 5 years from exiting, now I think more than 10. I believed w3 didn’t have either the political bandwidth or the change/ programme management competence to attempt this. It’s not over but I think indications are that I was proved correct on that one.

I don't seek to argue the economic case, although the hysterical claims of both leave,and remain make the truth hard to decipher. I don't 'seem to admit ' short term economic difficulties, in fact I completely agree with you aside from the length or severity which in truth neither of us know due to the lies peddled by both sides - I believe neither in the sunny uplands or the apocalypse, and suspect that for all the rhetoric commercial self interest will mean actually much less will change either way than people state. Saying that not much will change in our daily lives whether we leave or remain is almost as unfashionable as recognising merit in an opposing view nowadays.

 

[Ban-jani]

Johnson hinting he’s going to ignore the law and force through no deal even if it’s illegal to do so.

There’s little that would make me protest but if he does this I’m marching on London and will join in with the rioting.

Johnson entering fascist territory here.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Johnson hinting he’s going to ignore the law and force through no deal even if it’s illegal to do so.

There’s little that would make me protest but if he does this I’m marching on London and will join in with the rioting.

Johnson entering fascist territory here.

Honestly don't think he'd get away with that.

 

[Rascal]

When the surrender bill quisling turns up to hand over our sovereignty there will be smiling faces in Berlin as our kennel is prepared for occupation..

WOW Georgie Porgie, I know I can be hyperbolic, but that is stratospheric.

Congratulations, your searing rhetoric is a statement so bold in ambition its a munificent bequest to the good burghers of Berlin.

I am moved to tears at your audacity. I bow to your eloquence and kneel at the feet of your perspicacious oratory.

Mere mortals will remember this day for ever, the day that Georgie Porgie pudding and pie revealed his true greatness in the face of tremendous tumultuousness.

Chapeau Sir, Chapeau