Another new Brexit thread

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BlueHammer85 said:
Hindsight’s a wonderful thing - the clamour for a referendum was rising and rising , eventually a PM was going to give one -
Cameron may have campaigned for remain to ‘save his own backside’ but he clearly spelt out the benefits of remaining (trade, economically etc) and the negatives of leaving - unfortunately more people listened to Farage with his easy anti immigrant rhetoric.
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It wasn't in the top 10 of voters priorities.

I imagine that put it just below the amount of people who considered pigeons a pest
 
blueinsa said:
Off the back of party promises to respect the result.
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On the back of believing politicians not to try & make 'the result' one which suits them, when there is no specific instruction as to how the 'deal' promised would be brought about.

Those who do not care, or do not take an interest in the way these people operate, have a genuine reason for not expecting this. Those who are still arguing it was a good idea, as I say, deserve it.

I don't.
 
hgblue said:
I thought we were talking in the context of a deal and what Boris’s proposals were? I believe he’s off to Dublin next week to discuss with our Irish friends. Yet he’s being accused of not wanting a deal.
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Its Irish friends now?

dGEFxMY.gif
 
blueinsa said:
......sovereign parliament including all those so against it now voted for it as well.

I hope the fucking lot of them lose their seats at the next GE.

The mess we are in and face is the fault of Parliament and fuck all to do with the electorate.

650 lying, deceitful back stabbing twats.
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Come on, 649 lying deceitful back stabbing twats, and the hero of humanity, Mark Francois.
 
Neville Kneville said:
On the back of believing politicians not to try & make 'the result' one which suits them, when there is no specific instruction as to how the 'deal' promised would be brought about.

Those who do not care, or do not take an interest in the way these people operate, have a genuine reason for not expecting this. Those who are still arguing it was a good idea, as I say, deserve it.

I don't.
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leave
/liːv/
Learn to pronounce
verb
  1. 1.
    go away from.
    "she left London on June 6"
    synonyms: depart from, go away from, go from, withdraw from, retire from, take oneself off from, exit from, take one's leave of, pull out of, quit, be gone from, decamp from, disappear from, abandon, vacate, absent oneself from, evacuate
 
From that fruitcake IDS, posted on a Tory WhatsApp group leaked to Buzzfeed.

" We must stand fast and stand together. The Chief is right. The Government has the right to demand that we do not hand over power to Parliament to tie the PMs hand. We all know the consequences. The big fight is coming, against Corbyn. He is the real and present danger"

The man is deranged and fucking dangerous, he is advocating the executive take over of Parliament, that is elective dictatorship.
 
Rascal said:
From that fruitcake IDS, posted on a Tory WhatsApp group leaked to Buzzfeed.

" We must stand fast and stand together. The Chief is right. The Government has the right to demand that we do not hand over power to Parliament to tie the PMs hand. We all know the consequences. The big fight is coming, against Corbyn. He is the real and present danger"

The man is deranged and fucking dangerous, he is advocating the executive take over of Parliament, that is elective dictatorship.
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More.

Kevin Hollinrake MP

"Government has the right to ignore legislation"

Sheryll Murray MP

"I hope so"


Fucking hell...……………..This is becoming scary now. MPs are advocating for ignoring Parliament and that means they are ignoring the electorate. That means they are ignoring YOU.
 
Rascal said:
From that fruitcake IDS, posted on a Tory WhatsApp group leaked to Buzzfeed.

" We must stand fast and stand together. The Chief is right. The Government has the right to demand that we do not hand over power to Parliament to tie the PMs hand. We all know the consequences. The big fight is coming, against Corbyn. He is the real and present danger"

The man is deranged and fucking dangerous, he is advocating the executive take over of Parliament, that is elective dictatorship.
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I have total and utter disdain for IDS.

I genuinely hate the man.
 
A quite devastating read from Canada here : https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opi...is-boris-johnson-we-cant-even-find-the-words/

Interesting to see how Brexit is viewed outside our own media cauldron (away from psychopathic editors and dubious donors). Almost every line punches hard, but some which stand out are:

"Mr. Johnson is the author of 11 books, some admittedly banged out in the careless haste that is his style. But this week, without breaking a sweat, the PM penned the Odyssey and the Iliad of shambles."
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"British politics today is what results from the collision of an unstoppable force, an immovable object and a clown car. The unstoppable force is the dominant faction of Britain’s Conservative Party, which insists on not just an exit from the European Union, but the most catastrophic exit possible. The immovable object is reality – the reality that a no-deal Brexit will play havoc with the economy and hurt real people; the reality that a majority of Parliament and the people will not back it; the reality that the Brexit-at-any-cost crowd can’t press the detonator without majority approval. And the clown car is Mr. Johnson."
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And the one which I think sums this whole mess up perfectly:

"In 2016, the British people were asked what they thought of the idea of skydiving. In a referendum, they narrowly answered that, in theory, they’d be willing to give it a try. For three years, the British government has claimed that it is close to reaching a deal with the EU and acquiring the wherewithal for making a safe-ish jump possible. But the position of Mr. Johnson’s new government is that since Britain voted for the idea of skydiving, then skydiving there must be. On Oct. 31, Britain has no option but to jump out of a plane, parachute or no parachute."
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I consider myself a humble guy in the sense that I will invariably bow to greater wisdom. If someone is evidently more knowledgeable on a topic than I, or has qualifications that make them more of an authority than me, then I will bow to their expertise and listen. And it seems the majority of experts - legal, fiscal, economic, business, constituional...take your pick - have been saying that Brexit is a bad idea and that No-Deal will be catastrophic. Since the referendum I have worked in two sectors, the environment and academic, and have seen first hand the negative effects that even just the prospect of Brexit has had.

Yesterday my dad admitted he regrets voting Leave; he thought it would be better for his business but if anything it's made things harder. My mum tows her Daily Express line that "we just need to get the job done" and "they [EU] need us as much as we need them". I'm frequently hearing both sentiments - the heartfelt regret and the blind stubborness - and it's gut-wrenching. Thanks to my Canadian wife I have an escape route that I am in the process of claiming, and I can't help but feel that I'm leaving behind a country that is falling apart so that Boris Johnson can be king of the ashes, Rees-Mog can make a few extra bob by betting against the ecomony he claims to serve and those American firms can accelerate their carving of the NHS.
 
blueinsa said:
Off the back of party promises to respect the result.
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They did. They triggered the A50 notice to leave. The Govt negotiated a WA. The MPs looked at it and both Leave and Remain thought it was a crock of shit, voted it down and here we are mired in shit. You can argue that they have made a mess of it but you can’t argue they didn’t try.

Not respecting the result would have been the Tory Govt saying well that was a fun day of voting but it’s really a bad idea to leave. Soz. In retrospect it may have saved a lot of angst if they had done precisely that.
 
BobKowalski said:
They did. They triggered the A50 notice to leave. The Govt negotiated a WA. The MPs looked at it and both Leave and Remain thought it was a crock of shit, voted it down and here we are mired in shit. You can argue that they have made a mess of it but you can’t argue they didn’t try.

Not respecting the result would have been the Tory Govt saying well that was a fun day of voting but it’s really a bad idea to leave. Soz. In retrospect it may have saved a lot of angst if they had done precisely that.
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If the conservative party had done the sensible thing, and sat down with Labour to put together a deal that would pass, especially after May lost her majority, we would have left by now. As it is, all they have been interested in is trying to keep both sides of that party together, and fuck everyone else. There is no question Corbyn would have supported a soft brexit.
 
mcfc1632 said:
12. The above - setting DUP politics to one side - provides a unique position for the people of N.I. and should be welcomed.

13. Bringing N.I. politics back into the frame - bring forward a proposal for a referendum in N.I consistent with the provisions of the GFA to determine whether N.I. remains in the UK or transitions to a part of an 'all Island Ireland'. That would indeed be interesting for the ROI as the reality of what that means kicks in. If N.I. remains in the UK following the referendum then work on achieving the pre-determined backstop criteria continues until achieved.
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I totally agree that this would/could be a fantastic opportunity for NI...and if i remember correctly, most people welcomed the the idea but it was the DUP who didnt want NI to be different/separate from GB.

However, bringing forward a potential All Ireland referendum is a really bad idea...its not the right time, there is too much division being dug up at the moment. A brand new idea of what "future Ireland" looks like needs to be developed.

A United Ireland completely detached from GB/UK wont happen....but the back stop arrangement could be a testing ground for how things could develop over the years...slowly moving towards a reunified Ireland but input from both RoI and UK
 
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