Another new Brexit thread

[mancity2012_eamo]

Its Hotel California baby!

There's an offer on the table which would allow us to leave

They stab it with their steely knives, but they just can't kill the beast.

 

[west didsblue]

Look George, you understand electricity and how it works. So if you flick a light switch and the light comes on, you understand why. If anyone said it was witchcraft, you would say they are spouting shite about something they plainly don’t understand.

Doubt it. I suspect he's still got gaslights.

 

[Vic]

Don't think so

Yesterday's posts were a lot about the views of Scotland - there has been a lot commented upon with regard to N.I (very understandably)

FFS - I would strongly suspect that there are have been a lot more views explicitly about the views of citizens of the ROI than explicitly about those of English people - the clear majority of which voted Leave - on these threads.

The WA negotiated by May was a heavily biased towards Remain

Nope - I do not think that the views of English people have been well represented/considered at all.

It's pure bullshit. A deal to Leave was biased toward Remain.

What next? City winning only 3-0 was biased toward losing?

 

[Vic]

Yeah, which means your position is that you now support leaving the EU. For whatever reasons you wish to justify (myself, it's to heal the toxic political divisions) advocating that leaving with a deal is favourable than remaining (owing to the issues that would create) means you are a "leave supporter", not that you voted to leave or want to leave, you're a leave with a deal advocate.

It's that straight forward.

Bullshit. You ask what compromise we'd accept and any reply makes us Leavers. Pure bullshit.

 

[George Hannah]

There you go again, spouting shite about things you plainly don’t understand. What the AG told Parliament, correctly, is that the WA did not provide the UK with a unilateral right to exit from the backstop. What you plainly haven’t understood is that if Parliament passed an Act saying ‘notwithstanding the terms of the withdrawal agreement, we are no longer bound by it’ that would be the law of the land backstop or no backstop. Plainly, backing out of an international agreement that, under its own terms, we did not have a contractual right to back out of would carry consequences but that is nothing to do with sovereignty. Sovereignty, as I’ve tried to explain, is the concept of where ultimate lawmaking authority lies within a society. If the ECJ said ‘the law in Northern Ireland is X’ and our Parliament said ‘the law of Northern Ireland is Y’ then our Parliament wins. That is what sovereignty is. What Lord Denning said 45 years ago has no impact on sovereignty, it was to do with the effect of EU law. They are totally different concepts.

Since you accept that the Supreme Court’s judgment in Miller represents the definitive statement of the law on the question, I just don’t understand how you can say ‘you are simply wrong that our EU membership does not necessarily diminish our sovereignty.’ That is the exact opposite of what the Supreme Court says in Miller. See the final line of my earlier post.

Look George, you understand electricity and how it works. So if you flick a light switch and the light comes on, you understand why. If anyone said it was witchcraft, you would say they are spouting shite about something they plainly don’t understand.

Stop saying this is witchcraft.

With respect it is entirely your ordure and thaumaturgy that is obscuring the simple truth. In joining the EU this country voluntarily ceded its sovereignty through abandoning judicial competence in laws that now affect all parts of our daily life. To argue that it can be recovered in future by abandoning the tenets of International Law does not mean even that desperate act will be possible as a province of a future European superstate.

 

[Blue Hefner]

not really

Yes, really

 

[Vic]

I emphasised English voters:

meaning that was the example of where you twisted/invented and asked for the evidence - where is it?

You started with the majority of UK voters and later switched it to English voters. I didnt notice. I'm not apologising.

 

[George Hannah]

Yes, really

The primary reason why the WA wasn't passed by the HoC despite several attempts was precisely because the associated Irish Protocol leaves the UK under EU jurisdiction indefinitely and with no unilateral means of exit.

 

[George Hannah]

Cherry looking cheery right now

 

[west didsblue]

With respect it is entirely your ordure and thaumaturgy that is obscuring the simple truth. In joining the EU this country voluntarily ceded its sovereignty through abandoning judicial competence in laws that now affect all parts of our daily life. To argue that it can be recovered in future by abandoning the tenets of International Law does not mean even that desperate act will be possible as a province of a future European superstate.

Thesaurus out again.
Doesn't make the post any more credible by using obscure words.

 

[Chris in London]

With respect it is entirely your ordure and thaumaturgy that is obscuring the simple truth. In joining the EU this country voluntarily ceded its sovereignty through abandoning judicial competence in laws that now affect all parts of our daily life. To argue that it can be recovered in future by abandoning the tenets of International Law does not mean even that desperate act will be possible as a province of a future European superstate.

Oh for fuck's sake.

THE SUPREME COURT IS THE ULTIMATE ARBITER OF WHAT IS THE CONSTITUTIONAL LAW OF THIS COUNTRY. THEY SAID THE UK PARLIAMENT IS SOVEREIGN. YOU ARE NOT DISAGREEING WITH ME, YOU ARE DISAGREEING WITH THEM, AND FRANKLY THAT JUST MAKES YOU LOOK AN IDIOT.

I am not wasting any more of my time dealing with your inability to recognise when you are spouting shite about a matter you manifestly don't understand. Have a good day.

 

[George Hannah]

Oh for fuck's sake.

THE SUPREME COURT IS THE ULTIMATE ARBITER OF WHAT IS THE CONSTITUTIONAL LAW OF THIS COUNTRY. THEY SAID THE UK PARLIAMENT IS SOVEREIGN. YOU ARE NOT DISAGREEING WITH ME, YOU ARE DISAGREEING WITH THEM, AND FRANKLY THAT JUST MAKES YOU LOOK AN IDIOT.

I am not wasting any more of my time dealing with your inability to recognise when you are spouting shite about a matter you manifestly don't understand. Have a good day.

It's a shame you think discussion on here is a waste of time but I'm just stating what is clearly the case. Anyway for the last time:

1)The UK Parliament under the Monarch is sovereign

2) Joining the EU has resulted in the UK voluntarily ceding our sovereign power over our legislature - as happens to a greater or lesser extent with all international treaties.

Both those statements are correct and are straightforward. Sovereignty is a political concept not just a restricted legal one. Have a good day yourself.

 

[Chris in London]

It's a shame you think discussion on here is a waste of time but I'm just stating what is clearly the case. Anyway for the last time:

1)The UK Parliament under the Monarch is sovereign

2) Joining the EU has resulted in the UK voluntarily ceding our sovereign power over our legislature - as happens to a greater or lesser extent with all international treaties.

Both those statements are correct and are straightforward. Sovereignty is a political concept not just a restricted legal one. Have a good day yourself.

Discussion on here is not a waste of time but it is with you. Sovereignty is a specific constitutional concept with a specific meaning which I'm not repeating. In the context of an argument that membership of the EU involves a loss of sovereignty it can have no other meaning, and as I've told you repeatedly the assertion that sovereignty has been lost is in constitutional terms just plain wrong.

I refer for the last time to the last line of my earlier post.

 

[Neville Kneville]

So English voters and the majority of UK voters, voted to Leave the EU and are being forced to Remain - in what way does your comment demonstrate any level of consistency?

Oh here we fucking go.

IF AND WHEN IT IS REVOKED, ONLY THEN WOULD YOU BE FORCED TO REMAIN AND THEREFORE, ONLY THEN WILL YOU BE ENTITLED TO WHINE ABOUT IT, AND IF IT HAPPENS AFTER A REFERENDUM YOU WILL NOT BE IN THE MAJORITY, (but fully entitled not to like it).

AS IT STANDS WE ARE LEAVING.

Fucking whining wannabe scousers.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Shit happens when you lose an election.

I really really really really really hope it does. It will be like Utd at Sunderland.

I'm going to fucking dance on it, forever.

If there is a God, please make this happen.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Lot of angry people on here , I see shouty capitals has returned again. I reckon a few keyboards may be broke.

 

[carlosthejackal]

On the question of laws being forced upon us by Europe , just wondering which ones do the leavers on here find objectionable?

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

On the question of laws being forced upon us by Europe , just wondering which ones do the leavers on here find objectionable?

The Bendy Banana Directive 2002.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Lot of angry people on here , I see shouty capitals has returned again. I reckon a few keyboards may be broke.

I think you might be surprised what anger actually looks like.

And of course it's only leave voters who can be angry about anything, as they have been made to suffer being offered jelly & ice cream & not yet able to wallow in it.

 

[Neville Kneville]

On the question of laws being forced upon us by Europe , just wondering which ones do the leavers on here find objectionable?

Too much chocolate in chocolate ?