Iran

[Metalartin]

So why would you think it’s a civil war when KSA has 150,000 troops on the ground?

So you’d heard of it but just knew nothing about it?

Did you think Vietnam was a civil war?

It's the headline used to describe the conflict in countless mainstream media articles, even the wiki page uses it as the headline. I think you're arguing semantics. The way you asked me about it seemed like you were insisting it has been just Saudi vs Yemen from the start and Iran had nothing to do with it.

I probably wouldn't have taken as much interest in this had our club not been linked to it numerous times and I don't claim to be an expert like you do but I know there is propaganda on both sides in every conflict. The way you and others have seemingly shifted all blame off Iran is what I was surprised at and how nobody could see reasons why USA might get involved if Iran do try and invade or something daft that hasn't happened yet. I never said I was pro-saudi either but I understand that we(the west) do need allies in a region as important as that.

From July in the journalist hypocrisy thread:

Reading for anyone else interested in what this Ewan MacKenna fella is leaving out:
https://theglobepost.com/2017/11/21/qatar-saudi-arabia-blockade-game/
https://theglobepost.com/2019/06/17/qatar-crisis-gcc/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017–19_Qatar_diplomatic_crisis


So from the UAE side, Saudi Arabia aren't great to be linked to, I can already gather that.

But for balance, from what I can see, important points that are always left out form people like him are:

Iran are no angels, accused of state sponsored terrorism for a start(imagine the stories that would be written if City were on that side of things?) that's a good thing to lead with when a dipper is claiming "Iran aren't that bad compared to the UAE la".

Saudi Arabia don't have good relations with Iran(probably doesn't need to be said), especially after an attack on their embassy in Iran(Tehran) in 2016, other issues add to it such as the interpretations of Islam, aspirations for leadership of the Islamic world, oil export policy and relations with the United States and other Western countries.

Qatar have had close relations with Iran for a long time, they share one of the largest natural gas fields in the world, so it would be mutually beneficial if they did.

Qatar paid $700 million to Iranian-backed Shi'a militias in Iraq, in 2017. Which angered both Saudi Arabia and the UAE.

Saudi Arabia were becoming anxious about the Iranian presence in Yemen, Syria and Lebanon. They demanded Qatar reduce its relations with Iran, to reduce its growing influence in the region.

The blockade itself includes the airspaces of the UAE, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, and Egypt.

 

[SWP's back]

You should probably explain why Qatar paid money (Indirectly via the Iraqi government) to those Shia militants in 2017 (a ransom payment for members of the royal family that were kidnapped in Iraq).

 

[Rascal]

Saudi a terrorist state? Iran have done fuck all?... Angels then, your friends? I think we'll leave it there.

I have read both sides of it as I said. You've full gone all in on one side of it quite clearly. I tend to know there will be propaganda on both sides.

Would be a mistake to let Iran take that much power if that's the way it's going. Can't believe anyone can't see why.

Can you tell us all what Iran have actually done wrong?

Can you explain why Iran has a distrust of the West and why they have a saying that goes "behind every curtain is an Englishman"

Can you explain why Mogadeshi was tainted as a Communist?

 

[Metalartin]

Can you tell us all what Iran have actually done wrong?

Well for a start if this is a proxy war... Who do you think is on the other side of Saudi?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houthi_movement

Former Yemeni president Ali Abdullah Saleh had accused the Houthis of having ties to external backers, in particular the Iranian government.[131] Saleh stated in a New York Times' interview that "The real reason they received unofficial support from Iran was because they repeat same slogan that is raised by Iran death to America, death to Israel"

But before that there's always state sponsored terrorism:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_and_state-sponsored_terrorism

Can you explain why Iran has a distrust of the West

Is that a sarcastic question? As in you're telling me Iran do have good relations with the west?

 

[SWP's back]

Well for a start if this is a proxy war... who do you think is on the other side of Saudi?

But before that there's always state sponsored terrorism:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_and_state-sponsored_terrorism


Is that are sarcastic question? As in you're telling me Iran do have good relations with the west?

Weird, you missed this one when wondering why anyone had anything again Saudi. Maybe your wiki is faulty.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State-sponsored_terrorism#Saudi_Arabia

“Saudi Arabia arguably remains the most prolific sponsor of international Islamist terrorism, allegedly supporting groups as disparate as the Afghanistan Taliban, Al Qaeda, Lashkar-e-Taiba(LeT) and the Al-Nusra Front.[98][99]

Saudi Arabia is said to be the world's largest source of funds and promoter of Salafist jihadism,[100] which forms the ideological basis of terrorist groups such as al-Qaeda, Taliban, Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant and others.”

Lovely place.

 

[Metalartin]

Weird, you missed this one:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State-sponsored_terrorism#Saudi_Arabia

I never claimed Saudi had done fuck all though. Your defence of Iran is what's weird.

 

[SWP's back]

I never claimed Saudi had done fuck all though. Your defence of Iran is what's weird.

“They’ve done fuck all to the west, especially when compared with what the west have done to them” was my quote.

In reply to you asking how and why anyone could side with Iran over Saudi. On a list of cûnts, Saudi is right at the very top.

 

[Metalartin]

They’ve done fuck all to the west compared with what the west have done to them.

That may be true but neither have Saudi unless I've missed something and that isn't the discussion. I simply said as I understand it they have a strong distrust/dislike of the west. In reply to you suggesting you'd rather have them as an ally.

 

[SWP's back]

That may be true but neither have saudi unless I've missed something and that isn't the discussion. I simply said as I understand it they have a strong distrust/dislike of the west. In reply to you suggesting you'd rather have them as an ally.

It absolutely IS the discussion and speaks towards my preference of Iran over Saudi Arabia.

 

[Chris in London]

It absolutely IS the discussion and speaks towards my preference of Iran over Saudi Arabia.

I'm asking, rather than arguing (because this is certainly not my area of expertise) but irrespective of the argument about which is the bigger bunch of cunts, it seems to me that (assuming Iran is responsible for the attack) you can't go round firing missiles at another country's infrastructure, and the international community can't stand by and allow that to happen. Isn't it that simple?

 

[Metalartin]

In reply to you asking how and why anyone could side with Iran over Saudi. On a list of cûnts, Saudi is right at the very top.

"I don't get how anyone could be defending Iran or doesn't see the reasons why the US would get involved, how much involvement should they have is the question. Saudi and UAE are considered key allies in the middle east, the rest are anti-western in comparison, then there's the oil issue."

Was my quote.

The rest was in reply to you asking "have you not seen what Saudi have done in Yemen". Which seems to imply Iran had nothing to do with it until now.

 

[Rascal]

Is that a sarcastic question? As in you're telling me Iran do have good relations with the west?

No, I am asking if you know why Iran mistrusts the West, especially the UK and the USA.

 

[Metalartin]

No, I am asking if you know why Iran mistrusts the West, especially the UK and the USA.

I don't think that's relevant, they aren't going to be our allies was the point.

In regards to your question. I'm more interested to know what reasons you think it is. So I'll answer with a question like you've been doing.

Why do Iran mistrust the USA and the UK? Give me some of your knowledge.

 

[Postman Pep]

That may be true but neither have Saudi unless I've missed something and that isn't the discussion. I simply said as I understand it they have a strong distrust/dislike of the west. In reply to you suggesting you'd rather have them as an ally.

you may have missed the birthplace of the majority of the 9/11 crew being Saudi

I don't think that's relevant, they aren't going to be our allies was the point.

In regards to your question, I'm more interested to know what reasons you think it is. So I'll answer with a question like you've been doing.

Why do Iran mistrust the USA and the UK? Give me some of your knowledge.

For starters

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Mosaddegh

 

[Metalartin]

you may have missed the birthplace of the majority of the 9/11 crew being Saudi

For starters

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Mosaddegh

Just throw a link and offer no argument of your own... nice.

So I can only assume you believe a key ally in the middle east was behind 9/11 and relations haven't broken down since. How does that work?

 

[Postman Pep]

So you believe a key ally in the middle east was behind 9/11?

No but I do believe if the majority of them were Iranian born then the regime would have been guilty by association and there would have been instant retribution

 

[Metalartin]

No but I do believe if the majority of them were Iranian born then the regime would have been guilty by association and there would have been instant retribution

Well I wanted him/her to answer anyway, as I had a feeling they were going to link it to something far more recent than when relations with both actually broke down.

I don't think who started it is relevant, they would choose not to be allies even if given a choice by the looks of it. Is "Death to America" not a clear enough message?

Anyway I will leave it there. Everyone is free to support Iran if they want, I just said I can't understand why and I still don't. Both Saudi and Iran are cunts but one of them has crossed the line with a direct attack which has far reaching consequences in this proxy war. Simple as that for me.

 

[Rascal]

Why do Iran mistrust the USA and the UK? Give me some of your knowledge.

You can start with Mossaddeqs nationalisation of the Anglo-Iranian Oil company in 1951, Britain attempted to stop the world buying Iranian oil in protest. When Churchill regained power he did exactly what Trump is doing now with his posturizing and threats. In 1952 an oil tanker full of Iranian oil developed mysterious engine trouble off the coast of Aden, a BritIsh Colony and the Captain feared it was going to be attacked by the RAF planes circling it. The tanker was impounded in the port. sound familiar?

The newly nationalised company issued a writ and American resolve towards embargos faltered. Eisenhower came to power in the USA and a CIA coup aided by British agents staged a coup against Mossadeq accusing him of being a Communist. The Americans then backed the Shah as leader an autocrat until the revolution under Khomeni

About 30 years ago, this was leaked to the media and the Iranians are now quite rightly suspicious of the USA and UK because they fear further attacks on their sovereignty, hence the British being behind the CIA coup are known by soliloquy of "behind the curtains lies an Englishman".

Then there is the Iran - Iraq war, where the USA backed Iraq with weapons and specialist training.

Where there is Oil, there is usually American influence. Where there is American influence the Brits trail not far behind.

 

[Metalartin]

You can start with Mossaddeqs nationalisation of the Anglo-Iranian Oil company in 1951, Britain attempted to stop the world buying Iranian oil in protest. When Churchill regained power he did exactly what Trump is doing now with his posturizing and threats. In 1952 an oil tanker full of Iranian oil developed mysterious engine trouble off the coast of Aden, a BritIsh Colony and the Captain feared it was going to be attacked by the RAF planes circling it. The tanker was impounded in the port. sound familiar?

The newly nationalised company issued a writ and American resolve towards embargos faltered. Eisenhower came to power in the USA and a CIA coup aided by British agents staged a coup against Mossadeq accusing him of being a Communist. The Americans then backed the Shah as leader an autocrat until the revolution under Khomeni

About 30 years ago, this was leaked to the media and the Iranians are now quite rightly suspicious of the USA and UK because they fear further attacks on their sovereignty, hence the British being behind the CIA coup are known by soliloquy of "behind the curtains lies an Englishman".

Then there is the Iran - Iraq war, where the USA backed Iraq with weapons and specialist training.

Where there is Oil, there is usually American influence. Where there is American influence the Brits trail not far behind.

Hmmm took round about the time it would take to read postman's link to respond to that haha. Read my response to them above.

 

[SWP's back]

I'm asking, rather than arguing (because this is certainly not my area of expertise) but irrespective of the argument about which is the bigger bunch of cunts, it seems to me that (assuming Iran is responsible for the attack) you can't go round firing missiles at another country's infrastructure, and the international community can't stand by and allow that to happen. Isn't it that simple?

Absolutely. If Saudi Arabia want to go and throw a few missiles back at Iran then let them fill their boots.

But I don’t see why the US or UK should get involved. Do you?