Another new Brexit thread

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Mëtal Bikër said:
I'm in a Labour safe seat (80%) I could vote MRL, wouldn't matter.

But to answer your question, probably an independent MP candidate or not at all. I don't respect any of the current mob and wish for new blood in the HoC.
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Ok. I obviously don't know where you live so my question was more a thought experiment - if you could decide the make up of the next Parliament, post Oct 31st A.50 extension, who would you rather control it?

Me - I'm hoping(loosely) for a Labour/Lib coalition which will allow the LD to reign in Corbyn but also Labour to reign in the revoking of A.50 - this will allow a vote on 'a' deal V remain. Not ideal, but as soon as people in Parliament and the country realise* there is no ideal outcome the better

What are your thoughts?

*Lots do realise but pretend not to
 
Blue Hefner said:
Ok. I obviously don't know where you live so my question was more a thought experiment - if you could decide the make up of the next Parliament, post Oct 31st A.50 extension, who would you rather control it?

Me - I'm hoping(loosely) for a Labour/Lib coalition which will allow the LD to reign in Corbyn but also Labour to reign in the revoking of A.50 - this will allow a vote on 'a' deal V remain. Not ideal, but as soon as people in Parliament and the country realise* there is no ideal outcome the better

What are your thoughts?

*Lots do realise but pretend not to
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Neither Labour, Lib Dem or Tory.

I have no faith in any of them to deliver brexit or run the country as they have proved that they are all (currently) incredibly immature and self centered.
 
M18CTID said:
It's a shame Mugabe isn't around anymore. He had a bit of experience in that field. Maybe Vic could've drafted him in to sort it, given how well it went in Zimbabwe some years ago.
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Well I'm hardly going to defend Mugabe's policy but you have to ask what previous racist imperialist policies made it attractive.

Are you defending the royal gifts (thefts), robber barons, clearances and all the other historic dubious means by which people became landowners?
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
Neither Labour, Lib Dem or Tory.

I have no faith in any of them to deliver brexit or run the country as they have proved that they are all (currently) incredibly immature and self centered.
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Green Party, then. A man of my own heart - I new we'd agree eventually ;-)
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
EFTA is the Norway idea. Norway is both EEA and a member of the EFTA.

So what are you talking about or are you just being deliberately dismissive?
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Norway pays into the EU & as it's Prime Minister basically said, has a worse relationship than we do, with no say in what happens but has to put up with most of the shit.

For me, it's much better than the other deals on offer, but how you will sell it to leave & remain voters once Farage & Co get stuck into it, I have no idea.
 
Blue Hefner said:
Green Party, then. A man of my own heart - I new we'd agree eventually ;-)
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Greens want to reform the EU, a position I accept and agreed with and when it was clear they didn;t want to reform , it forced my hand.

Whether they can acheive it is heavily debatable, but considering the recent EU elections saw a HUGE rise in Green MEP's, shows that many across Europe feel the same.

As for UK politics though, I doubt the Greens would seek to deliver on brexit. So no, not the Greens either.
 
Neville Kneville said:
Norway pays into the EU & as it's Prime Minister basically said, has a worse relationship than we do, with no say in what happens but has to put up with most of the shit.

For me, it's much better than the other deals on offer, but how you will sell it to leave & remain voters once Farage & Co get stuck into it, I have no idea.
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But Norway isn;t in the EU, is it.
 
Neville Kneville said:
No.

But it would probably be better for it, if it was.
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In your opinion.

Otherwise they'd have joined by now.

Some of us here in the UK also want out, end the EU contributions (not a requirement of trading or the Customs Union, just ask Canada) and be free to trade outside of EU agreed partners.
 
Neville Kneville said:
Norway pays into the EU & as it's Prime Minister basically said, has a worse relationship than we do, with no say in what happens but has to put up with most of the shit.

For me, it's much better than the other deals on offer, but how you will sell it to leave & remain voters once Farage & Co get stuck into it, I have no idea.
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Ironically the complaint was always we were rule takers not rule makers. We never were, but that is precisely what we would become.

MB is absolutely right to say EFTA/EEA membership would solve the Irish border problem at a stroke. It doesn’t however have much else to commend itself.
 
Chris in London said:
Ironically the complaint was always we were rule takers not rule makers. We never were, but that is precisely what we would become.

MB is absolutely right to say EFTA/EEA membership would solve the Irish border problem at a stroke. It doesn’t however have much else to commend itself.
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I agree that it is all a matter of perspective regarding a closer relationship with Europe in comparison to an EFTA/EEA style one.

It all depends on the individuals own personal opinion, and for me, I choose one that is close but not too close.

The "ruletakers not rulemakers" argument never resonated with me, as I didn't want to see a Europe making any "rules" at all.
 
Chris in London said:
Ironically the complaint was always we were rule takers not rule makers. We never were, but that is precisely what we would become.

MB is absolutely right to say EFTA/EEA membership would solve the Irish border problem at a stroke. It doesn’t however have much else to commend itself.
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That plus immigration which, for all the protestations, is the main reason a decent percentage of people voted leave.

In order to get this through, it would mean ignoring the feelings of many leave voters & persuading many remain voters that it's better to do this than stay in.

In reality, if given the option, the majority of both may prefer to remain & the majority of leavers prefer no deal.
 
Neville Kneville said:
Do the Germans not already do a lot more of that than we do ?
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Only within nations the EU has agreed with. They want the "EU project". We don't. So they can pay for it and stop asking us to contribute anything. Now THAT is one of the main reasons that a decent percentage voted to end.
 
Neville Kneville said:
That plus immigration which, for all the protestations, is the main reason a decent percentage of people voted leave.

In order to get this through, it would mean ignoring the feelings of many leave voters & persuading many remain voters that it's better to do this than stay in.

In reality, if given the option, the majority of both may prefer to remain & the majority of leavers prefer no deal.
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Completely agree. It’s why I’ve long since held the view that a multi option referendum on the basis of single transferable votes is the answer. There isn’t a majority for anything. The solution, whatever it is, inevitably will be what some people want and others can live with. Some leavers would prefer remain to EEA type status, some leavers would choose EEA but would prefer no deal than remain if push came to shove.

The current mess is what you get when you offer a binary solution to a non binary problem.
 
Chris in London said:
Completely agree. It’s why I’ve long since held the view that a multi option referendum on the basis of single transferable votes is the answer. There isn’t a majority for anything. The solution, whatever it is, inevitably will be what some people want and others can live with. Some leavers would prefer remain to EEA type status, some leavers would choose EEA but would prefer no deal than remain if push came to shove.

This is what you get when you offer a binary solution to a non binary problem.
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Some Tory **** the other night said he told Cameron that.

That fucker has a nerve showing up now.
 
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