Another new Brexit thread

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west didsblue said:
Might not know for sure until he writes it on a bus but everything Johnson does smacks of his motives being relating to consolidating his own position of power irrespective of the consequences. Johnson's concern for the wellbeing and unity of the country appears to be well down any priority list behind his personal ambitions.
There are already 21 Tory MPs that have abandoned him and more would follow if they had the balls to do it.
Even his own brother and sister think he's a ****.
The reason previous Tory governments have stood up for the union and not advocated for Scotland breaking away is that they have always had leaders that have wanted what's best for the country rather than wanting power at any cost. Many in northern towns who felt that Thatcher shat on them in the 80s wouldn't agree but I think her motivation was to improve the country's economy for the long term.
The cost of any Scottish breakaway would be huge and this is the first time we've had a PM who's happy to see the country go to hell in a hand cart if it secures his position as PM for the long term. He will invent a bogeyman to blame for the shit we're in every year or two until enough of the population finally see through him.
You need to take your blinkers off.
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And you need to stop being ridiculously simplistic.

We've zero way of knowing how much Johnson values the Union, or not. And moreover, he may very well be so driven to be PM by the entirely honourable motive that he wants to see Britain be a better place as a result of the initiatives and changes he wants to bring about. Whether you agree with the policies or not, the intentions could be entirely noble, as I suspect they are for the vast majority of MPs.

I can't stand Corbyn, I absolutely loathe the guy, but that doesn't stop me being just a tiny bit objective and recognising that he probably in his own twisted way, means well. And yet for you lot, Tories are evil scum only ever in it for personal gain. Well I guess the rags didn't call us the bitters for nothing.
 
Chippy_boy said:
And you need to stop being ridiculously simplistic.

We've zero way of knowing how much Johnson values the Union, or not. And moreover, he may very well be so driven to be PM by the entirely honourable motive that he wants to see Britain be a better place as a result of the initiatives and changes he wants to bring about. Whether you agree with the policies or not, the intentions could be entirely noble, as I suspect they are for the vast majority of MPs.

I can't stand Corbyn, I absolutely loathe the guy, but that doesn't stop me being just a tiny bit objective and recognising that he probably in his own twisted way, means well. And yet for you lot, Tories are evil scum only ever in it for personal gain. Well I guess the rags didn't call us the bitters for nothing.
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If you don't think it's blatantly obvious what Johnson's up to then you're part of the problem. His persistent provable lies and obvious bullshit are clear for all to see unless you aren't looking.
I can't stand Corbyn either but I can also see that in his own way he wants what's best for the country. I think his approach is totally wrong and wouldn't support him, unless it was a straight choice between him and Johnson
 
Telegraph getting all worked up again. Yet this is just stating the bleeding obvious. The E27 Head of State will discuss Brexit amongts themselves at the summit and not with the U.K. or even with the U.K. in the room and they certainly won’t be ‘negotiating’. That’s what they pay the EU for not to mention their own support and technical staff. If we want the EU and E27 to consider proposals then they will have to be submitted prior to the summit so their trade and legal bods can give them the once over. I sometimes wonder if we know how the world actually works.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politic...ohnson-parliament-no-deal-barnier-conference/
 
bluejon said:
Please remember it is entirely possible to be a 'lefty' and still think corbyn is an arse.
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Oh, yes I am sure of that.

I'm just a bit sick of the gloaters on here regurgitating every snippet of difficulty for Johnson with such utter glee. It was pleasing to remind them that nearly all of the Labour MPs hate Corbyn's guts and would get rid of him in a heartbeat if given half a chance. The Labour Party is just as fucked as the Tories. Whereas the Tories are hijacked by a bunch of rightwing nutters, the Labour Party is ditto hijacked by a left wing which is completely out of touch with the electorate at large.
 
Chippy_boy said:
Just another example of an MP being "tired and emotional". Nothing to see here.
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If we are being kind he looks like he has been making good use of the subsidised bars in the HoC - if we are unkind it looks like he may have attended one of his ..ahem...parties
 
west didsblue said:
If you don't think it's blatantly obvious what Johnson's up to then you're part of the problem. His persistent provable lies and obvious bullshit are clear for all to see unless you aren't looking.
I can't stand Corbyn either but I can also see that in his own way he wants what's best for the country. I think his approach is totally wrong and wouldn't support him, unless it was a straight choice between him and Johnson
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You're entitled to your opinion mate. As am I.
 
Chippy_boy said:
Oh, yes I am sure of that.

I'm just a bit sick of the gloaters on here regurgitating every snippet of difficulty for Johnson with such utter glee. It was pleasing to remind them that nearly all of the Labour MPs hate Corbyn's guts and would get rid of him in a heartbeat if given half a chance. The Labour Party is just as fucked as the Tories. Whereas the Tories are hijacked by a bunch of rightwing nutters, the Labour Party is ditto hijacked by a left wing which is completely out of touch with the electorate at large.
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This left wing of which you speak is not so left wing at all. You would no doubt have been railing against Atlee, calling him a commie had you been around at the time.

If the current leadership of the Labour Party is so out of step with the electorate then it suggests that the electorate has become very right wing.
However I don't think that's the case and you may be surprised when there's an election.
 
bluethrunthru said:
But 3 years later he is still there
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Precisely!

You've just evidenced how fucked the Labour party is. 172 out of 212 MPs want him gone and after 3 years, they STILL haven't managed to get rid of the twat.

What a harmonious team, which I am sure will do very well indeed (from a Tory perspective) at the next GE.
 
west didsblue said:
Irrespective of motives, do you think Johnson is a lying rabble rousing bullshitter?
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Not particularly. Politicians are sales people and sales people lie all the time, it's part of the job spec. Estate agents describing a slum as a good development opportunity etc.

And "rabble rousing bullshitter"? You want to cite that as a criticism? Really???

41B5CE4F00000578-4635348-image-a-8_1498376914667.jpg
 
Chippy_boy said:
Not particularly. Politicians are sales people and sales people lie all the time, it's part of the job spec. Estate agents describing a slum as a good development opportunity etc.

And "rabble rousing bullshitter"? You want to cite that as a criticism? Really???

41B5CE4F00000578-4635348-image-a-8_1498376914667.jpg
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Many politicians and estate agents may well distort facts. Johnson just makes shit up. It's provable.

I would say there's a huge difference between oration and rabble rousing.

If you think it's all the same you're no different to a Trump supporter in the US. Don't worry though, there's lots of you in the same boat.
 
robbieh said:
This left wing of which you speak is not so left wing at all. You would no doubt have been railing against Atlee, calling him a commie had you been around at the time.

If the current leadership of the Labour Party is so out of step with the electorate then it suggests that the electorate has become very right wing.
However I don't think that's the case and you may be surprised when there's an election.
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True. Who can forget the chaos ‘Red Ed’ would have wrought in 2015 with his Communist mandate or the ‘devil eyed Tony Blair’ who would adopt the Euro and make us all speak French and convert to Catholicism. Harold Wilson was a KGB agent apparently.

No matter who Labour elect he is always one of the horsemen of the apocalypse.

Yet Tories go round blithely fucking up the country and its ‘lets elect them again! Hooray!’.

Funny old world.
 
blueinsa said:
Is that what we all do as parents?

I pay for Rugby lessons for my lad and dancing for my girls but i dont pay for anyone elses kids do I?

They are only 8 but come the end of secondary school and exams time they will get every spare penny I have spent on them for tutors if they need them to get the required grades and again, i wont be paying for any other kids and yes it will be to give mine an advantage.
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Fuck - failed toskip over sufficient pages and landed on this exchange

What utter envy and unreasonableness you are addressing here. Talk about wanting to live in the collective and all we need is for parents to stop wanting to do their best for their children - let's all just have a human nature by-pass

Some true natures have come to the fore these last days
 
blueinsa said:
What the actual fuck are you going on about?

Now my kids shouldn't go to Rugby or dancing because someone else's kids dont or cant?

Are you well Vic?

I am being serious here.
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Did you get an answer?

I am actually a bit concerned about reading the next pages

Some proper disturbing stuff being posted
 
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