Another new Brexit thread

[George Hannah]

Georgie boy is arguing against himself though in that point I replied to.

Please explain how, it is always likely and if not corrected we never learn. I would add that the wellspring of the rich founding member states is deeper than the rest. Their political and economic ambitions are consequently greater than the others and require heavier financial burdens to be borne along the way. Those states who do not share that overarching vision are happy to enjoy the cartel's benefits without the extra superstate bonus or the sacrifices needed to achieve it. That most of them do not regard federalization as desirable is the EU's unsustainable fault line.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Surprised you ask that question.

The Scottish populace returned a party that supported a referendum being held and they duly campaigned for that and their wish was granted - for what was branded by the SNP as a 'once in a lifetime generation' vote. The proposition was granted.

Strangely, immediately at the point that the vote was lost, the SNP started preparing for the next - including they appointed a lead person to be based in Brussels to develop the process for Scotland's accession to the EU should a future vote be held.

Therefore, those posts on here that claim that the push by the SNP/Scotland was put to bed in 2014 and only rekindled due to the 2016 vote are either demonstrating a lack of knowledge or being disingenuous.

Strangely, if there was another vote - say in 2024 (10 year gap seems appropriate) and the UK have genuinely left the EU - it will be again the Scots voting to stay in the UK - whilst the English electorate might have a very different attitude if they were consulted.

They were lied to .... simple as that. The Conservatives promised that by staying in the UK the Scots were guaranteed continued membership of the European Union.

 

[blueinsa]

They were lied to .... simple as that. The Conservatives promised that by staying in the UK the Scots were guaranteed continued membership of the European Union.

Guaranteed right up to the point that as a nation, including over 1 million Scots a majority voted for the UK to leave the EU.

 

[Neville Kneville]

You post insults more frequently and of a more personal and offensive nature on this thread than anyone - and that by some distance

But any way the point I was making was to test @stonerblue consistency - there is a oft repeated situation here that some Remainers can post just what the fuck they like and as often as they like yet Leave posters get pulled up for it. So my point was to him/her not you.

BTW - I am loving the manner in which you are hiding behind the Boris appellation - I am guessing that '...yeah I have been proven totally wrong and I can see that I really embarrassed myself...." was just too hard to type. The other person running away and having to be childish is always a satisfying way to be proven to be right.

I am calling you out on behaving exactly like Boris Johnson.

The main single person I 'insult' on this forum, is you by the way & not very often others, as you found recently when failling to find any evidence whatsoever after accusing me of it during one discussion & then Borislike, pretended you meant something else, which couldn't be quantified. I generally insult the p.o.v. if I think it's total shit, not the person, unless they head down that road, in which case I reply in kind.

I actually avoid insulting you most of the time too but it's fairly pointless as you mainly respond in the same Borislike manner, irrespective.

I recenltly very civilly asked you a selection of points, which you dodged & failed to answer (Borislike) then made a bit of a speech enforicing your own opinion (Borislike) & then began insulting those who didn't agree with you (Borislike) then accused them of being responsible for lowering the tone rather than yourself (Borislike).

You can insult me as much as you like by the way, I don't mind at all

I just don't respect those who do exactly that & then whinge about it.

 

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

People who want to leave the EU but then tell Scotland they're not allowed to vote on independence are the definition of wanting to have their cake and eat it.

 

[blueinsa]

People who want to leave the EU but then tell Scotland they're not allowed to vote on independence are the definition of wanting to have their cake and eat it.

Hang on a minute here.

They voted and decided to stay in. Who refused them anything?

We voted to leave the EU yet many of you will do anything to stop that from happening.

Mind you're not sick eating all that cake!

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Guaranteed right up to the point that as a nation, including over 1 million Scots a majority voted for the UK to leave the EU.

Can’t be right fat Scottish jabba in the Commons said the people of Scotland voted to leave the eu and that he speaks for the people of Scotland not westminister.

It’s all very confusing

 

[Neville Kneville]

We wasn't and granted one which the SNP said themselves was a once in a generation chance.

They lost.

You know, the situation has completely changed & you know exactly what it is, that has changed & how that was a factor discussed in their last referendum.

You can of course choose to ignore that fact, but do you think you have a cat in hells chance of persuading the Scots to ignore it ?

 

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

Hang on a minute here.

They voted and decided to stay in. Who refused them anything?

We voted to leave the EU yet many of you will do anything to stop that from happening.

Mind you're not sick eating all that cake!

They voted to stay in when the UK as a whole was in the European Union. Now that's no longer going to be the case the situation has evidently changed.

I'd have thought most brexiteers would understand a country's desire for sovereignty and independence? ;)

 

[Neville Kneville]

Hang on a minute here.

They voted and decided to stay in. Who refused them anything?

We voted to leave the EU yet many of you will do anything to stop that from happening.

Mind you're not sick eating all that cake!

Plently of us would like to stop that from happening (perhaps a majority now) but remember, we are not allowed to.

All we can do is point things out, which itself seems to cause considerable discomfort.

 

[west didsblue]

We wasn't and granted one which the SNP said themselves was a once in a generation chance.

They lost.

Surprising that you consider yourself part of the English establishment.

One of the main reasons that the Scottish independence vote was won by the remain side was the promise of continued EU membership and the fact that Scotland would need to re-apply for EU membership with no guarantee of success. Clearly, with the UK outside the EU, the facts on the ground will have changed leading to the nationalists justifiably wanting another opportunity to see if Scottish opinion has changed in the light of the new reality.

 

[FlemishDuck]

Therefore, those posts on here that claim that the push by the SNP/Scotland was put to bed in 2014 and only rekindled due to the 2016 vote are either demonstrating a lack of knowledge or being disingenuous.

Who gives a toss? Not the Scots.
Youre naive if you think that what you mentioned would realisticly stop any people that desired independance.

I respect self determinism at all times, i respected the UK wish to leave, i'd respect a scotish desire to be independant aswell. In such a case the Scots have the right to declare themselves free any time they wish, and any limitation on such self determination would utimatly be a form of tyrany itself.

Youre naive if you think that what you mentioned would stop any people that desired independance.

I do not expect to see consideration of points by you that suggest there is any difficulties for the EU

You have not shown any capability to do that

The EU is not perfect but i don't think i have any duty whatsoever to explain that given the context of the thread and the typical discussion. I certaintly do't have any responsabillety towards you when i'm simply scrutinizing youre nonsense.

AND if you didn't see me doing any such considerations, you can hardly contemplate my capabilety for it anyhow, youre last remark is stupid in itself imho, i mean you havn't even proven youre capability to hammer in a nail. Judging by what i can only see on this forum, you are actually an armless, limbless and sexless object who's only method of communication is Braille trough the tongue. There is no indication whatsoever on this forum that you would be anything else than what i can immagine, because you havn't explicitly shows youre capability's here to move arms or legs etc.

 

[blueinsa]

You know, the situation has completely changed & you know exactly what it is, that has changed & how that was a factor discussed in their last referendum.

You can of course choose to ignore that fact, but do you think you have a cat in hells chance of persuading the Scots to ignore it ?

The SNP are not the Scots and certainly don't speak for every one living here.

Over 1 million Scots voted to leave so who speaks for them because the SNP are not?

Who speaks for the majority that rejected independence because again the SNP are not?

Classic remain tactic of pretending you speak for everyone.

You don't and the SNP don't.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Surprised you ask that question.

The Scottish populace returned a party that supported a referendum being held and they duly campaigned for that and their wish was granted - for what was branded by the SNP as a 'once in a lifetime generation' vote. The proposition was granted.

Strangely, immediately at the point that the vote was lost, the SNP started preparing for the next - including they appointed a lead person to be based in Brussels to develop the process for Scotland's accession to the EU should a future vote be held.

Therefore, those posts on here that claim that the push by the SNP/Scotland was put to bed in 2014 and only rekindled due to the 2016 vote are either demonstrating a lack of knowledge or being disingenuous.

Strangely, if there was another vote - say in 2024 (10 year gap seems appropriate) and the UK have genuinely left the EU - it will be again the Scots voting to stay in the UK - whilst the English electorate might have a very different attitude if they were consulted.

That's the problem with having a referendum, it sets the wheels in motion to have another.

Why, even our now Prime Minister said there should be a 2nd EU referrndum, as did the other leading figure, Nigel Farage.

Referendums eh.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Surprising that you consider yourself part of the English establishment.

One of the main reasons that the Scottish independence vote was won by the remain side was the promise of continued EU membership and the fact that Scotland would need to re-apply for EU membership with no guarantee of success. Clearly, with the UK outside the EU, the facts on the ground have changed leading to the nationalists justifiably wanting another opportunity to see if Scottish opinion has changed in the light of the new reality.

Who is saying people in a country cannot self determine their own fate?

If the people of Scotland want to leave the uk have another referendum then fine. I don’t live in Scotland , I live in England but if that referendum resulted in Scotland wanted to leave the uk and leave won I would totally respect that view and I think it would be incumbent on the rest of the uk to work with the Scottish govt reasonably to facilitate that result efficiently reasonably and sensibly.

 

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

Over 1 million Scots voted to leave so who speaks for them because the SNP are not?

This is exactly the same arguement as 48% of the UK voting to remain lmao

 

[Kazzydeyna]

The SNP are not the Scots and certainly don't speak for every one living here.

Over 1 million Scots voted to leave so who speaks for them because the SNP are not?

Who speaks for the majority that rejected independence because again the SNP are not?

Classic remain tactic of pretending you speak for everyone.

You don't and the SNP don't.

I'm perfectly happy for the Scots and their masters, the yellow tory SNP, to have another ref. I'm even happy for them to win it.

I just wont be happy for them to leave without a deal that is agreeable to both sides. And if the rest of the uk will not agree to their proposed deal then they will of course have to stay part of the union.

I'm sure the SNP and those voting to leave the uk would agree this is entirely appropriate, fully democratic, and would of course endorse this negotiating position fully.

That's the thing with trying to subvert the democratic will of the people. It can come back to bite you.

 

[Neville Kneville]

The SNP are not the Scots and certainly don't speak for every one living here.

Over 1 million Scots voted to leave so who speaks for them because the SNP are not?

Who speaks for the majority that rejected independence because again the SNP are not?

Classic remain tactic of pretending you speak for everyone.

You don't and the SNP don't.

Actually, look at what you just posted.

You accuse me of 'speaking for them' simply by mentioning that 'things have changed' & they know it.

But you of course, are not 'speaking for them', by telling me how they voted.

Only one of us is trying to 'speak for them' or indeed has decided they should not speak for themselves & it isn't me.

Unlike you, I don't know how they would vote.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

This is exactly the same arguement as 48% of the UK voting to remain lmao

Yeah we know we haven’t left.

Imagine if the Scots voted for independence and leave won by 52% and somehow leaving the uk was frustrated . Can you imagine the anger.

 

[blueinsa]

Surprising that you consider yourself part of the English establishment.

One of the main reasons that the Scottish independence vote was won by the remain side was the promise of continued EU membership and the fact that Scotland would need to re-apply for EU membership with no guarantee of success. Clearly, with the UK outside the EU, the facts on the ground will have changed leading to the nationalists justifiably wanting another opportunity to see if Scottish opinion has changed in the light of the new reality.

I don't see myself as any part of the establishment whatsoever.

Merely pointing out arguments they are being denied a voice and say is frankly bollocks.

They can vote again tomorrow for me and go it alone.

No problem at all.