Another new Brexit thread

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Ban-jani said:
No deal wasn’t uttered once prior to the vote in 2016, not by any of the leave campaign or those in the public eye that backed leaving.

The argument from many current leave supporters is that the government said a vote to leave would be a vote to leave the Customs Union and Single Market, which is true... but they also said, as did every vote leave figure, that we’d have a trade deal with Europe, with the vast majority stating it’d be a free trade deal.

I’m a remain voter and would vote remain every time I was asked. However I think given the above, we must leave with a deal and cannot and should not leave with no deal.

If you want a mandate for any other direction, than a deal with the EU, then it needs to be put back to the people in another referendum, despite the fact I hate them.
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This
 
George Hannah said:
The difference is that leavers have every right to complain, they have been sold down the river and their discontent will find expression in a GE. Sadly the debate and its proponents have become so polarized that event will produce a grossy distorted verdict - probably carte blanche for a crash out via a BoJo/Farage axis deliberately forced by a Labour Party which knows it's finished as an electable power.
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Ifwecouldjust....... said:
Single market and Customs Union was a May red line as was coming out of the jurisdiction of the ECJ (which is why we'll never get a Norway type deal)

Coming out with no deal does not solve the requirement for a border in Northern Ireland. Without control over quality and standards and a dispute resolution mechanism the Eu will not trade with the UK. Currently 42% of our trade is with the Eu.

Coming out with no deal does not automatically mean we get a free trade agreement with the Eu after all we will owe them the (agreed) sum of £39 billion.

Last time I checked ... all MEP's were democratically elected (albeit on a proportional representation system known as De Hont)

Last time I checked the Eu Commissioners were all elected by people that this country had voted for (and in any event the commission cant vote anyway)
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You didn't mention that the backstop was originally introduced by the UK, not the EU.
It takes a special skill to get so much wrong in one post. (not you btw, @Cheadle_hulmeBlue) ;-)
 
Vic said:
To replace Johnson who's PM without having an election and without a majority.
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Johnson has offered an election and this must be the first opposition ever to turn one down, obviously because they know they'd lose on an all options available Brexit! Why not just offer everything on the table, isn't that democracy? Or do they fear the public will be 'stupid' again?

Labour policy in cahoots with another element of Parliament is to go into an election offering a referendum that is rigged to make sure that there is no option but to remain.

I just can't see it flying to be honest which is why they are very quiet indeed right now, it is why they focus on personal attacks on Boris instead of offering real alternatives.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
There is the problem.
You demand answers, reasons, explanations, because in common with your grouping, you simply cannot reconcile yourself to losing.
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And it’s here in all its glory. That’s all you have got , “ you lost “ . Fancy wanting answers, reasons and explanations.
You can’t explain what you have won , you can’t say what deal you voted for because if you did you have to accept that Farage , Gove and company lied . So briefly just explain what you voted for .
 
carlosthejackal said:
And it’s here in all its glory. That’s all you have got , “ you lost “ . Fancy wanting answers, reasons and explanations.
You can’t explain what you have won , you can’t say what deal you voted for because if you did you have to accept that Farage , Gove and company lied . So briefly just explain what you voted for .
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Leave the EU.

To explain that further and in its simplest terms it means not remaining in any way shape or form which is what the losing side wanted.

Preferably with a deal.

If that isn't possible then without one.
 
Gelsons Dad said:
Or not give in to the threat of terrorism. The Good Friday agreement is not fit for purpose post Brexit so change it.
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Spot on - there is the chance through the Brexit process to establish arrangements that match the current and future reality
 
carlosthejackal said:
And it’s here in all its glory. That’s all you have got , “ you lost “ . Fancy wanting answers, reasons and explanations.
You can’t explain what you have won , you can’t say what deal you voted for because if you did you have to accept that Farage , Gove and company lied . So briefly just explain what you voted for .
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I voted to leave the EU.
Briefly, just explain why you voted to remain in the EU.
Tell us why you agree with supporting your own parliament, and 2 others in Europe. Briefly, why you support the juristiction of the ECJ, your reasons for supporting federalism, your
support for a convicted negligent as EU President, and the manner of her election.
After an in depth response has been received, and given my approval, I'll put some more questions up.

Do you see what you, and all the others who refuse to accept a democratic vote have been, and still are, doing here?
 
Gaudion M said:
I still think Brexit will be stopped. There is no way we will ever leave on a no deal basis - the only option brexiteers are now pushing.

Given it is now no deal or no brexit - what do you want to see happen.
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There was a clue in the 2nd para:

"I know that you do not want it - no sensible person should - but neither should we be afraid of that path if the alternative is so ruinous to the UK - either Remaining or May's deal.."
 
blueinsa said:
As are the lib dems.....

Its gone on for years and will continue to do.

My issue is the faux outrage from some whilst lapping it up when it suits.
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its not faux outrage. it is outrage, we all should feel that, and any brexiter that believes its a means to justify an end and is somehow acceptable, should frankly be questioning their 'democracy' convictions.

it is also a matter of scale, while all the parties now are doing/trying it in some form (i maintain none should), the scale the brexit unelected private companies did it on, outwith any funding scrutiny is way off and immeasurable.

Many leave voters bang on about how any return to ask the public will be 'rigged', not acknowledging that the referendum we had itself was massively rigged to sell something different to so many under the same banner.
There is no shame in calling that an outrage.

Which is why we are in this mess, because you cant seem to get two people to whom brexit means the same thing.

To many, the outcome doesnt even matter, it is the concept of their 'will' being pursued they are more driven by. Globally speaking, rather than about posters om here, whose views i do recognise and i dont broad brush under that.
 
Vic said:
And this morning's Brexit boost.

Scottish distillers worried about the effect of a 25% tariff to the USA might take comfort from the likelihood that a No Deal would mean the pound plunging against the dollar, perhaps by as much as 25%....
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And there was going to be an immediate recession amd the stock market was going to crash etc etc straight after a leave vote. Selective as always Vic.
 
blueinsa said:
Leave the EU.

To explain that further and in its simplest terms it means not remaining in any way shape or form which is what the losing side wanted.

Preferably with a deal.

If that isn't possible then without one.
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That is very clear. When you say you would leave without a deal is it because you think the damage to the U.K. economy of doing it will be far less than expected, or do you expect it to be bad and would still leave? Not being smart and not a trick question.
 
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