Another new Brexit thread

[mcfc1632]

If the EU let us out it will be wholly attributable to their fear of No Deal. It's still a very big if though.

Spot on

So much denial - when in fact we should all be pleased

Brexit does strange things to what I am sure are normally rationally thinking people

 

[Coatigan]

Busy with work most of yesterday but very much this.

Especially the everyone should be happy that a deal is now in sight bit!

I do agree with your last sentence, wholeheartedly (with my heart, And my hole).

Lets see how it plays out, hopefully does actually lead to a deal, so that it can be the option vs remain on that confirmatory referendum....

 

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

Really - love to hear how you think that would come about

* UK leaves EU
* Scotland's holds independence referendum
* Scotland votes to leave the UK and applies to join the EU

 

[mcfc1632]

So I think we can summarise that in 3 years - No deal was better than a bad deal which was May's deal which is now a good deal - relax for the weekend it's all under control

May's deal = unfettered backstop = far worse than Remaining

 

[Ancient Citizen]

More the point of gift from the PM, the idea he should refuse one, and that nobody south of the border cares.

Im sure he Could try to refuse btw, and maybe even would. but that would only feed it further. Do you really think he Should?
the SNP do have a mandate, and the numbers.

(Note btw, i have never claimed that i think there is enough desire amongst scots for Scotland to go independent. Just that i think brexit will strengthen the case, rather than killing it off, which i find a perverse interpretation.)

He has no reasons at all to grant one, the SNP wanting one is no reason at all.
What is this stance 'Feeding'
and why should he allow it?
After leaving the EU, that's the end of them, yes, they may keep, or even gain seats, but this idea of leaving the UK and joining the EU is a daydream, one that's not happening.
As stated by many on here, UKIP, and the BP, will be history, their purpose redundant, the SNP, although
not redundant, will slowly die imo.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

* UK leaves EU
* Scotland's holds independence referendum
* Scotland votes to leave the UK and applies to join the EU

How do Scotland hold an independence referendum?

 

[blueinsa]

How do Scotland hold an independence referendum?

In remain land you get what you want, even if it's the complete opposite of what you have been saying for 3 years.

Rabid Nationalism also becomes a good thing that should be supported.

 

[mcfc1632]

I know plenty of people on all sides of the debate that thought a deal could get done. I do think you need to get away from the idea of there purely being only remainers and leavers who all have exactly the same opinion and mindset of each individual issue.

I do think people really should wait to see the detail though. A deal being done is one thing, a deal being done that also gets through parliament is another. If Johnson has conceded on a few things too then that may well be likely.

There is no part of what I am posting that states a deal has been done - or even is very likely

My comments are, in the main, just observing that the EU has made some movement that creates a pathway to get people into the tunnel (I think that is the current jargon)

 

[Coatigan]

How do Scotland hold an independence referendum?

Surely you know how referendums work?

 

[mcfc1632]

There is no deal as good as the one we have currently however - as a member state- Leaving will be a disaster

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50019069

more money we wouldn't have to spend

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50019045

With respect - you would say that

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Surely you know how referendums work?

Yes, but it appears the poster I quoted may not.

 

[mcfc1632]

Is that “what no Prime Minister could ever consider”. Theresa May endlessly from 2017-2019?

She meant "...what no Prime Minister who has just fucked up her majority and left herself dependent on the DUP could ever consider...."

 

[Coatigan]

He has no reasons at all to grant one, the SNP wanting one is no reason at all.
What is this stance 'Feeding'
and why should he allow it?
After leaving the EU, that's the end of them, yes, they may keep, or even gain seats, but this idea of leaving the UK and joining the EU is a daydream, one that's not happening.
As stated by many on here, UKIP, and the BP, will be history, their purpose redundant, the SNP, although
not redundant, will slowly die imo.

He does, if the Scottish parliament passes the motion for one. In which the snp, along with the geeens, have the numbers, and the mandate, as it was in their 2016 manifesto.

It would be catastrophic if he were to say no, for democracy. The equivalent to the EU saying the UK cant Brexit.

Particularly if the deal sets a precedent of NI defacto remaining in the EU.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

In remain land you get what you want, even if it's the complete opposite of what you have been saying for 3 years.

Rabid Nationalism also becomes a good thing that should be supported.

It's always tickled me how fervant Europhiles have painted leavers as rabid little England nationalists, yet have no problem with the Jocks.
Having rabid nationalists on your side in parliament does present the opportunity for rank hypocrisy to develop however ;)

 

[Hesperus]

I did say that I was not counting them....

I am just celebrating Tusk rowing back and the EU having moved - so there is now the potential for a deal to be made

How exactly have the EU moved????

If what is being reported is true, the EU have not moved at all and Boris has made the huge concession of offering up NI. No wonder Leo was very happy with the progress. A step closer to a United Ireland.

In offering NI, Boris has removed the red line May had during negotiations of keeping the Union intact. A red line that was demanded by her own party and obviously the DUP. May must be spitting feathers!

 

[meltonblue]

There is no part of what I am posting that states a deal has been done - or even is very likely

My comments are, in the main, just observing that the EU has made some movement that creates a pathway to get people into the tunnel (I think that is the current jargon)

I’m not sure they have though unless we see the detail. If it is what has been leaked in Ireland, then it’s no different to the deal that the EU proposed a couple of years ago.

We all need to wait to see what concessions have been made.

 

[Coatigan]

It's always tickled me how fervant Europhiles have painted leavers as rabid little England nationalists, yet have no problem with the Jocks.
Having rabid nationalists on your side in parliament does present the opportunity for rank hypocrisy to develop however ;)

oh here it comes again. please don't go ahead and prove the very point you are supposedly arguing. please.

 

[George Hannah]

Spot on
So much denial - when in fact we should all be pleased
Brexit does strange things to what I am sure are normally rationally thinking people

If it happens they'll claim nothing happened and if it doesn't they'll say they told you so all along. Their absurdity is comical. The reality is that if we exit with a deal BoJo is the clear winner and the EU & their HoP allies are toast. If we crash out on a no deal this month, many people and businesses in this country and Ireland will sadly join the other casualties. If it happens next January Farage will be back from the ditch and the rest of us here and abroad still badly and unnecessaily damaged but at least we will be out of the EU. Wishing Brexit away won't change that reality nor will a GE.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Except he didn’t.

The quote was there’s a special place in hell for Brexit promoters without a plan.

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

But then it was bound to be rewritten by those Brexit promoters for consumption by the gullible.

Yeah the main point I was making was responding to a post saying the eu are always diplomatic and calm. “A special place in hell “ does not fit that narrative , nor is calling our pm a traitor. But yeah it’s diplomatic language if you want to believe it.

 

[mcfc1632]

Yep. All the objections and opposition from within the Tory party will have to wait for the secrecy to be lifted.

I meant that the EU are not leaking - but it is also good to see some government discipline